Who Or What Is Israel?

[Elihoenai]

I find the Scriptures were originally written in Hebrew and Greek (Aramaic) Not in KJV English.
Thus an Interlinear translation can be referred to.
For a few examples how would someone understand such KJV verses as:
What is the KJV 'sod pottage' at Genesis 25:29 _________
What is the KJV 'burning ague' at Leviticus 26:16 __________
What is the KJV 'bitten and the besom' of Isaiah 14:23 ____________
What is the KJV 'rereward' of Isaiah 58:8 B ______________
- www.jw.org

Elohim/God is Not Limited by language. Elohim/God has translated the Holy Scriptures/Bible Perfectly in different languages giving All Men/Women the Knowledge of Salvation.

Those examples that you gave of the KJV are different terms expressing the same meaning. For example Sod Pottage is the same as Boiling Pottage/Stew. When I study I use my preferred Young's Literal Translation with the King James. The New International Version (NIV) is also accurate.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Meaning that Jehovah Witnesses will prevent me from speaking in the Kingdom Hall. In the Seventh Day Adventist Church they allow me to speak and shout down what I say if it's in Contrary to their teachings. There are restrictions on what you allowed to say in the Jehovah Witness Kingdom Hall.

El, it is extraordinarily rude and socially inappropriate to enter the worship place of another religion, and make trouble there. It is not the time and place. Don't keep doing this. It's wrong. It's not loving your neighbor as yourself.

Church Attendance is part of Sabbath Day Observance.

No, not really. There is nothing in the Torah about going to synagogue or temple or church on the Sabbath. Yes, the tradition has developed, and that's fine, but it is not on par with a commandment. The primary commandment is to refrain from labor. You can do that at home without attending any worship service at all.

Indeed, for Jews, worship has traditionally been done EVERY day, with prayers three times a day in lieu of the three temple sacrifices, and not really related to the Sabbath.

Why do you think I write on these forums? I'm promoting the only True Religion of Christian Gnosticism. In Christendom Nobody is Really Saved. What the World Considers Bad is Good Work.

So your only purpose here is only to proselytize? Sad. But at least it is not socially inappropriate to do that in here. Indeed, this forum really IS the okay time and place.

 

[Elihoenai]

It is an occasional country when not being ruled by someone else.

Elohim/God has given Israel the country into the hand of different Nations over the ages. Does that suggest that Elohim/God doesn't really care about the Physical Land of Israel?

Genetics only pertains to Israel the man imho.

What do you mean by this? Those claiming to be Jews affirm that Israel Identity is Determined by the Mother's Genes.

No, just as I don’t see a spiritual US.

Exactly, the Unites States is Carnal and Not Spiritual. In the UK it's the same Being Carnal and Not Spiritual. You cannot hide the Truth from All the People. That's why the most popular movies has plenty of Sex and Violence and they create few movies without Sex and Violence. As the Amish like to say, the US is English. The UK is English.


Amish Abduction - Trailer

No. Human politics is about and by humans.

Human Politics is about Supporting and Maintaining the Desires of the Natural Man. Human Politics is about Popularity and the Natural Man is what is Popular.

 

[metis]

What human do you know who can stop sinning ?
Only if a person could stop sinning he would Not die.
Since all sinners die and we can't resurrect oneself or another we need someone who can resurrect us.
Sinless Jesus dying a faithful death can and will resurrect us - Revelation 1:18
Jesus balanced the Scales of Justice for us.
Where Adam failed (under good conditions) Jesus (under adverse conditions) succeeded.

What you wrote above simply avoided dealing with the point I raised.

Again, human sacrifices were and are not allowed in Judaism or in Christianity. Since it cannot logically be accepted at the literalistic level, it can be accepted at the symbolic level, and that's where I tend to believe Paul was coming from.

 

[2ndpillar]

What you wrote above simply avoided dealing with the point I raised.

Again, human sacrifices were and are not allowed in Judaism or in Christianity. Since it cannot logically be accepted at the literalistic level, it can be accepted at the symbolic level, and that's where I tend to believe Paul was coming from.

Paul is coming from Romans 7:19, whereas "I practice the very evil that I do not wish". Paul was born of the devil (1 John 3;8), and he and his followers are slaves to sin. They have their false hopes, and faith in their false prophets, but nothing to show for their efforts.

 

[2ndpillar]

What do you mean by this? Those claiming to be Jews affirm that Israel Identity is Determined by the Mother's Genes.

Israel/Jacob, as well as Judah/Jews, have historically been proved to be on the wrong side of truth (Jeremiah 8:8).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Elohim/God is Not Limited by language. Elohim/God has translated the Holy Scriptures/Bible Perfectly in different languages giving All Men/Women the Knowledge of Salvation.
Those examples that you gave of the KJV are different terms expressing the same meaning. For example Sod Pottage is the same as Boiling Pottage/Stew. When I study I use my preferred Young's Literal Translation with the King James. The New International Version (NIV) is also accurate.

I agree then with you that the King James is Not the only translation to compare because of its out-dated words.
The King James translates the Tetragrammaton YHWH proper name into English at Psalm 83:18.
I think too Young's ( Is it the Bible in Living English ) uses God's name in English.
Even remote translation offices make rapid Bible translation possible to be done right where the people live.
So, yes, giving 'ALL Men/Women the Knowledge of Salvation' just as Jesus did at Luke 4:43; Luke 8:1 .
The 'Kingdom of God' as being the Knowledge (the education) of Salvation ( thy kingdom come........... )
God's Kingdom government (Daniel 2:44) being the central theme of Jesus' teachings as to what is going to ' save / deliver / rescue ' Men and Women at Jesus soon coming Glory Time of separation ( Matthew 25:31-34,37 )

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What you wrote above simply avoided dealing with the point I raised.
Again, human sacrifices were and are not allowed in Judaism or in Christianity. Since it cannot logically be accepted at the literalistic level, it can be accepted at the symbolic level, and that's where I tend to believe Paul was coming from.

Right, human sacrifice was Not allowed by God as we can read at Jeremiah 32:35 B.
The people were Not to sacrifice their children - Ezekiel 23:37 - and as food for their idols to devour.
Not to burn their children in fire - 2nd Chronicles 28:3 as Ahaz did.
What Jesus willingly sacrificed was voluntarily giving up his sinless life for us.
God did Not set Jesus on fire, nor make Jesus stand in our place. - Hebrews 2:9
> If you were charged with a Capital Offence and the Judge issues you the death sentence, but a voice behind you says to the Judge that he will take your place.
The Judge says to the man, " Are you sure ? " and the man answers , " Yes, father I want to do this. "
Jesus is the Son who willingly stood in our place, your place, paying the price for our sins (Romans 5:12; 3:23)
Jesus made that sacrifice because we can't stop sinning, since we can't stop sinning we die.
Jesus, on the other hand being sinless, his dying faithful canceled out our wrongs making a resurrection possible.
Plus, at Jesus' coming Glory Time (Matt. 25:31-34,37) the figurative humble 'sheep' can remain alive on Earth and be here on Earth to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth for a thousand years with No more death on Earth in view - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[Elihoenai]

El, it is extraordinarily rude and socially inappropriate to enter the worship place of another religion, and make trouble there. It is not the time and place. Don't keep doing this. It's wrong. It's not loving your neighbor as yourself.

What you have written is Offensive to Elohim/God. Your claim of being Israel is a Total Mockery of what Israel Stands For.

No, not really. There is nothing in the Torah about going to synagogue or temple or church on the Sabbath. Yes, the tradition has developed, and that's fine, but it is not on par with a commandment. The primary commandment is to refrain from labor. You can do that at home without attending any worship service at all.

Luke 4:16

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.


For Christian Gnostics It's a Requirement to attend Church on the Sabbath Day as is the Custom of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

Indeed, for Jews, worship has traditionally been done EVERY day, with prayers three times a day in lieu of the three temple sacrifices, and not really related to the Sabbath.

Joel 2:28

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:


That sounds more like Israel. Christian Gnostics strive to Worship 24/7. That means Worship in Dreams.

So your only purpose here is only to proselytize? Sad. But at least it is not socially inappropriate to do that in here. Indeed, this forum really IS the okay time and place.

No place to Proselytize is Inappropriate because All Places Belongs to Elohim/God and where Elohim/God is Present. We only have One Purpose In All Places and At All Times.

 

[Elihoenai]

I agree then with you that the King James is Not the only translation to compare because of its out-dated words.
The King James translates the Tetragrammaton YHWH proper name into English at Psalm 83:18.
I think too Young's ( Is it the Bible in Living English ) uses God's name in English.
Even remote translation offices make rapid Bible translation possible to be done right where the people live.
So, yes, giving 'ALL Men/Women the Knowledge of Salvation' just as Jesus did at Luke 4:43; Luke 8:1 .
The 'Kingdom of God' as being the Knowledge (the education) of Salvation ( thy kingdom come........... )
God's Kingdom government (Daniel 2:44) being the central theme of Jesus' teachings as to what is going to ' save / deliver / rescue ' Men and Women at Jesus soon coming Glory Time of separation ( Matthew 25:31-34,37 )

Exodus 3:14

14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.


Whether you use Jehovah, Yahweh or Lord in the translation they have the same meaning. I just started watching a series about the story of Moses and one of the commentators said that the name of Elohim/God is a Verb. The name of Elohim/God is Noun and Verb.

When studying I use the Young's Literal Translation, King James and Strong's Concordance together.


Young's Literal Translation

Translation philosophy

"...The Literal Translation is, as the name implies, a very literal translation of the original Hebrew and Greek texts. The Preface to the Second Edition states:

If a translation gives a present tense when the original gives a past, or a past when it has a present; a perfect for a future, or a future for a perfect; an a for a the, or a the for an a; an imperative for a subjunctive, or a subjunctive for an imperative; a verb for a noun, or a noun for a verb, it is clear that verbal inspiration is as much overlooked as if it had no existence. THE WORD OF GOD IS MADE VOID BY THE TRADITIONS OF MEN. [Emphases in original.]..."

Young's Literal Translation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[metis]

Right, human sacrifice was Not allowed by God as we can read at Jeremiah 32:35 B.
The people were Not to sacrifice their children - Ezekiel 23:37 - and as food for their idols to devour.
Not to burn their children in fire - 2nd Chronicles 28:3 as Ahaz did.
What Jesus willingly sacrificed was voluntarily giving up his sinless life for us.
God did Not set Jesus on fire, nor make Jesus stand in our place. - Hebrews 2:9
> If you were charged with a Capital Offence and the Judge issues you the death sentence, but a voice behind you says to the Judge that he will take your place.
The Judge says to the man, " Are you sure ? " and the man answers , " Yes, father I want to do this. "
Jesus is the Son who willingly stood in our place, your place, paying the price for our sins (Romans 5:12; 3:23)
Jesus made that sacrifice because we can't stop sinning, since we can't stop sinning we die.
Jesus, on the other hand being sinless, his dying faithful canceled out our wrongs making a resurrection possible.
Plus, at Jesus' coming Glory Time (Matt. 25:31-34,37) the figurative humble 'sheep' can remain alive on Earth and be here on Earth to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth for a thousand years with No more death on Earth in view - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

Taken symbolically, which is where I think Paul was coming from, it makes sense. Nor do accept the millennial reign as being literal but is likely symbolic of the Church remaining intact until the end-of-time, and we know this is the way the early Church saw this since there's no other reference in scripture or early tradition to give reason to interpret it literally.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What you have written is Offensive to Elohim/God. Your claim of being Israel is a Total Mockery of what Israel Stands For.

Quite the contrary. "Love your neighbor as yourself" is the basis for all basic kindness and politeness. When you are rude (and you are when you disrupt the worship services of other religions), you violate the heart and soul of the Torah.

Luke 4:16

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Are you confused what the word Torah means? The Torah is the first five books of the Bible, also known as the Books of Law. Is Luke one of the first five books of the Bible?

Joel 2:28

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

I despair of having a rational discussion with you. This verse has absolutely no relationship to how often God calls us to worship. None.

No place to Proselytize is Inappropriate because All Places Belongs to Elohim/God and where Elohim/God is Present. We only have One Purpose In All Places and At All Times.

Wrong. Would you want a Hindu coming into YOUR house of worship and disrupting the service? What is hateful to you, do not do to others.

If I were you, I would seek out a good, qualified counselor to assist you in learning basic social skills. It probably is not your fault that you struggle with this. But it is still your responsibility to learn how to live with your deficits.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Taken symbolically, which is where I think Paul was coming from, it makes sense. Nor do accept the millennial reign as being literal but is likely symbolic of the Church remaining intact until the end-of-time, and we know this is the way the early Church saw this since there's no other reference in scripture or early tradition to give reason to interpret it literally.

I find there is 'No end to time' because: Earth abides forever - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalm 104:5
If Adam and Eve had Not broken God's Law they could have lived forever ( everlasting life ) on Earth.
Earth was never designed to be a stepping stone to another place. Earth was and is Home.
Early church did recognize the 1,000 year reign - Rev. 20:2, 6-7
Why would Nobleman Jesus return if No reign - Luke 19:11-13
God's Kingdom government ( Daniel 2:44; 7:13-14,18 ) will be the last royal government standing.
Humble meek people to inherit 'the Earth' as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
Isaiah paints a beautiful paradisical word picture of future Earth for us in Isaiah's 35th chapter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Exodus 3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
Whether you use Jehovah, Yahweh or Lord in the translation they have the same meaning. I just started watching a series about the story of Moses and one of the commentators said that the name of Elohim/God is a Verb. The name of Elohim/God is Noun and Verb.
When studying I use the Young's Literal Translation, King James and Strong's Concordance together.
Young's Literal Translation
Translation philosophy
"...The Literal Translation is, as the name implies, a very literal translation of the original Hebrew and Greek texts. The Preface to the Second Edition states:
If a translation gives a present tense when the original gives a past, or a past when it has a present; a perfect for a future, or a future for a perfect; an a for a the, or a the for an a; an imperative for a subjunctive, or a subjunctive for an imperative; a verb for a noun, or a noun for a verb, it is clear that verbal inspiration is as much overlooked as if it had no existence. THE WORD OF GOD IS MADE VOID BY THE TRADITIONS OF MEN. [Emphases in original.]...".......................................

Elohim and Adhonai are substitute titles as Lord and god are titles and Not the Tetragrammaton YHWH proper name.

Yes, the corrupted religious leaders of Jesus' day made the Word of God (Scripture) invalid because they were teaching their religious traditions as Scripture when their teachings were Not Scripture as found at Matthew 15:9; Mark 7:7
This is why Jesus pronounced many 'woes' and said his reasons why against them in Matthew chapter 23.

Besides Young's, one can compare with a side-by-side Greek/English translation of the Christian Scriptures.

 

[metis]

I find there is 'No end to time' because: Earth abides forever - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalm 104:5
If Adam and Eve had Not broken God's Law they could have lived forever ( everlasting life ) on Earth.
Earth was never designed to be a stepping stone to another place. Earth was and is Home.
Early church did recognize the 1,000 year reign - Rev. 20:2, 6-7
Why would Nobleman Jesus return if No reign - Luke 19:11-13
God's Kingdom government ( Daniel 2:44; 7:13-14,18 ) will be the last royal government standing.
Humble meek people to inherit 'the Earth' as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
Isaiah paints a beautiful paradisical word picture of future Earth for us in Isaiah's 35th chapter.

You avoided answering what I posted, so there's no where to go on this.

 

[Elihoenai]

Elohim and Adhonai are substitute titles as Lord and god are titles and Not the Tetragrammaton YHWH proper name.

Are you one of those that assert you don't know the name of Elohim/God or not Allowed to Pronounce it? The meaning of Elohim/God is what is important. What Elohim/God means to one person means something different to another. Elohim/God has given itself many Different names as there are many Different aspects of Elohim/God.

Yes, the corrupted religious leaders of Jesus' day made the Word of God (Scripture) invalid because they were teaching their religious traditions as Scripture when their teachings were Not Scripture as found at Matthew 15:9; Mark 7:7
This is why Jesus pronounced many 'woes' and said his reasons why against them in Matthew chapter 23.

Psalm 51:5

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

2 Timothy 4:3

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


The Corrupt Religious Leaders Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow are From the Womb. The Corrupt Religious Leaders of Christianity, Islam and Judaism Represent the People and teach what the People want to hear. This is Ordained by Elohim/God.

Besides Young's, one can compare with a side-by-side Greek/English translation of the Christian Scriptures.

Do you know Greek to compare with English Translation?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Are you one of those that assert you don't know the name of Elohim/God or not Allowed to Pronounce it?

It's a moot question. The knowledge of how to pronounce it was lost some 2000 years ago after the destruction of the temple. We simply don't know what the vowels were.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It's a moot question. The knowledge of how to pronounce it was lost some 2000 years ago after the destruction of the temple. We simply don't know what the vowels were.

Interesting about the vowel points.
Jerome (translater of the Latin Vulgate) wrote in 384 CE the Tetragrammaton is written with the letters; Iod,He,Vau,He.
One Jewish professor told me some scholars think of the name YHWH as in 3 syllables Yod He Wad He ( If I remember right ) vowel points of the Tetragrammaton YHWH as Yehwah or Yehwih or Ye.ho.wah although scholars favor Yahweh.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Interesting about the vowel points.
Jerome (translater of the Latin Vulgate) wrote in 384 CE the Tetragrammaton is written with the letters; Iod,He,Vau,He.
One Jewish professor told me some scholars think of the name YHWH as in 3 syllables Yod He Wad He ( If I remember right ) vowel points of the Tetragrammaton YHWH as Yehwah or Yehwih or Ye.ho.wah although scholars favor Yahweh.

There are many guesses how it is pronounced, but in the end, they remain only guesses.

 

[Elihoenai]

Titus 1:14

14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.


You will Most Certainly Know the Name of Elohim/God and Pronounce the Name of Elohim/God when You Become One With Elohim/God. Only Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ Is One With Elohim/God.

Everything else is Worthless Fables by those claiming to be Jews and so-called Christians that have Rejected and Mocked Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. To Attain Oneness With Elohim/God you Must Totally Rid Yourself of Idle so-called Christian an Jewish influence.