Who is happier?

[Ozzie]

Once I saw a bird perched on a branch. Something startled it, then it flew away. I said to my companion, "I envy that bird, it doesn't know it is afraid". My companion replied, "I feel compassion for that bird, because it does not know fear".

Are animals happier than humans because they do not know fear?

Can animals know compassion, or is compassion "human"?

 

[Master Vigil]

I have always felt that animals feel exactly what we feel... however they are not attached to it. I remember one night I was at my ex's house, and we heard a sound and then her dog yelp. We quickly ran out and down to the road to see if it was hit. We spent like and hour trying to find this dog, and when we went back to the house, there he was... just sitting on the porch with his tail wagging and him SO HAPPY. But we noticed that he had blood gushing out of his nose.

The dog felt the pain, knew the pain, felt fear, knew fear... but let it pass through him without attachment to it. That is why it was happy, and healed so quickly.

I definitely feel that animals are not necessarily "happier" as we know the term. But are more in touch with their "being-ness" and are therefore spiritually more advanced than we are.

 

[UnityNow101]

As Master Vigil pointed out, animals do indeed know fear, it is just a matter of whether or not they allow that fear to cloud their perception of the situation. I have known of many animal abuse cases in which the animal is most certainly fearful and timid towards the person which had done the abusing, but are willing to "forgive", for lack of a better term, the individual in a much faster amount of time then many of us human beings can...

 

[whereismynotecard]

Animals can be afraid... Why else would the bird have flown away when startled??

Baggins gets scared when the vaccum is on... He actually is scared of the vaccum even if it isn't turned on.

But yes, I would like to have a simplistic life similar to Baggins's, so I wouldn't have any obligation to go to school or work or anything... I'd just lay around, play outside, sleep in Hannah's bed at night... I would love to be Baggins. I know he does get afraid though. He also doesn't like it when people knock on our door. I love him.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Ozzie,

Once I saw a bird perched on a branch. Something startled it, then it flew away. I said to my companion, "I envy that bird, it doesn't know it is afraid". My companion replied, "I feel compassion for that bird, because it does not know fear".

Are animals happier than humans because they do not know fear?

Can animals know compassion, or is compassion "human"?

Animals are BEINGS, but most humans are still to BE.
Whatever you mentioned about fear/compassion etc. are perceptions of the developed Mind of humans which other beings do not have and so they neither fear no have compassion as we humans state and only due to perceptions.
Love & rgds

 

[3.14]

animals can sence fear but can't define it as more then instinct we on the other hand can thats why people are able to get over there fears

 

[zenzero]

Friend 3.14,

animals can sence fear

They sense danger, instinctively; but not FEAR.
Love & rgds

 

[Father Heathen]

Once I saw a bird perched on a branch. Something startled it, then it flew away. I said to my companion, "I envy that bird, it doesn't know it is afraid". My companion replied, "I feel compassion for that bird, because it does not know fear".

Are animals happier than humans because they do not know fear?

Can animals know compassion, or is compassion "human"?

Of course animals know compassion. Anyone who's owned any dogs can attest to this. And of course they feel fear. How did anyone come up with the silly notion that they didn't? Animals clearly express both all the time.

 

[Father Heathen]

Friend 3.14,



They sense danger, instinctively; but not FEAR.
Love & rgds

Nonsense. Have you ever seen mistreated animals cower?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Father Heaven,
Yes, stand corrected.
Thank you.
Rather should state that they have all qualities of humans as humans have evolved from animals except the mind in humans developed to the level where humans are the only being which can merge with the Total/Whole/God/etc.
Otherwise we [humans] are also animals/beings.
Love & rgds

 

[Valjean]

Animals are exactly as we are, except they do not anticipate and worry about the future to the extent we do. They live more in the moment. Thet are also more right-brained. They live more in a world of feelings and emotion than intellect and analysis.

Their capacity for fear, pain and suffering is essentially identical to our own, however, so we owe them the same moral deference we show our fellow hominids.

 

[Master Vigil]

Friend Father Heaven,
Yes, stand corrected.
Thank you.
Rather should state that they have all qualities of humans as humans have evolved from animals except the mind in humans developed to the level where humans are the only being which can merge with the Total/Whole/God/etc.
Otherwise we [humans] are also animals/beings.
Love & rgds

I disagree. I feel that animals are already at one and merged with the Total/Whole/God/ etc... But due to our intellect, humans have developed Ego, and hence, separate ourselves. Animals are not illusioned, humans are.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Master Vigil,

I disagree. I feel that animals are already at one and merged with the Total/Whole/God/ etc... But due to our intellect, humans have developed Ego, and hence, separate ourselves. Animals are not illusioned, humans are.

Yes, agree with you BUT was was trying to state is that animals cannot get out of the evolutionary process and only humans have that capacity through the developed mind.

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Love & rgds

 

[Master Vigil]

Friend Master Vigil,


Yes, agree with you BUT was was trying to state is that animals cannot get out of the evolutionary process and only humans have that capacity through the developed mind.

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Love & rgds

Understood. I suppose I see it as... They may be able to get out of it, but because of their nature... they don't. Because it isn't necessary, and may actually be detrimental. I once heard an argument between an evolutionist and a creationist. And the creationist had stated that "if we teach our children that we are just animals, they will start acting like animals." It wasn't his intent, but I believe that was the best advice. We always try to rid ourselves of attachment and baggage, animals have none. We always try to live in the NOW, animals do this. Animals aren't racist, prejudiced, or destroying the planet. The only negative things animals do, are the result of human interference.

Does that make sense?

 

[Little Joe Gould]

Understood. I suppose I see it as... They may be able to get out of it, but because of their nature... they don't. Because it isn't necessary, and may actually be detrimental. I once heard an argument between an evolutionist and a creationist. And the creationist had stated that "if we teach our children that we are just animals, they will start acting like animals." It wasn't his intent, but I believe that was the best advice. We always try to rid ourselves of attachment and baggage, animals have none. We always try to live in the NOW, animals do this. Animals aren't racist, prejudiced, or destroying the planet. The only negative things animals do, are the result of human interference.

Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes a lot of sense to me and also articulates some thoughts I've had on the matter as to the "spiritual" state of animals. In my opinion, the ego develops through heightened intellect. When we are infants, we make no distinction between ourselves and our environments; when a baby waves its hand across its field of vision, its hand doesn't move; the universe moves. I believe that animals are in a similar state of mind. They merely eat their food, drink their water, and be happy.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Master Vigil,

Understood. I suppose I see it as... They may be able to get out of it, but because of their nature... they don't. Because it isn't necessary, and may actually be detrimental. I once heard an argument between an evolutionist and a creationist. And the creationist had stated that "if we teach our children that we are just animals, they will start acting like animals." It wasn't his intent, but I believe that was the best advice. We always try to rid ourselves of attachment and baggage, animals have none. We always try to live in the NOW, animals do this. Animals aren't racist, prejudiced, or destroying the planet. The only negative things animals do, are the result of human interference.

Does that make sense?

Yes, this is only due to the developed MIND which is the root of all DUALITIES and only by transcending this mind that humans are able to merge again and animals carry on their journey through evolution till they too become humans and have that opportunity to follow the same route.
LOve & rgds

 

[Ozzie]

Friend Master Vigil,



Yes, this is only due to the developed MIND which is the root of all DUALITIES and only by transcending this mind that humans are able to merge again and animals carry on their journey through evolution till they too become humans and have that opportunity to follow the same route.
LOve & rgds

That is "as it should be" (as Mary Poppins would say).

 

[Master Vigil]

Friend Master Vigil,



Yes, this is only due to the developed MIND which is the root of all DUALITIES and only by transcending this mind that humans are able to merge again and animals carry on their journey through evolution till they too become humans and have that opportunity to follow the same route.
LOve & rgds

Agreed on the developed mind being the root of our suffering. I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree on the other aspect. And I know that my thought of humans being at the bottom of the spiritual ladder, with a need to become more like animals may not be very Buddhist. And due to that fact, I will not argue it in the DIR.

 

[Luminous]

Desire is the cause of suffering. Unfullfilled/Lost desire.