Who is God?

[osgart]

And that can be done with the Truth, Rational, Logic or any other words that in effect function the same way.
In fact I know I am right and you are wrong with evidence, truth, proof or whatever is the general version and can be done without claiming God.
The standard for some non-believers is Objective Reality and that works in the same way as God.

Can you say anything is actually true about existence? My God is fictitious btw, but there are elements of truth to it. I've formed relationships with people that do exist. There's truth in those relationships.

Oftentimes my subjectivity is the most true thing about existence and the physical world is just a backdrop.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Can you say anything is actually true about existence?

If I can speak for Mikkel, there is no such thing, absolutely none.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Can you say anything is actually true about existence? My God is fictitious btw, but there are elements of truth to it. I've formed relationships with people that do exist. There's truth in those relationships.

Oftentimes my subjectivity is the most true thing about existence and the physical world is just a backdrop.

No, other than objective reality is independent of my mind, but that is it. It is independent of my mind and that is true, but empty for anything else than independent.
In practice my beliefs about objective reality other than independent are faith. I am just honest about that. Now for the practice including the everyday world and you, it is a bit more complex but that is in part different kinds of faith.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I was not 100% correct in describing Mikkel's view. As I see, he is not a nihilist.
He is just complicated for most people.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I was not 100% correct in describing Mikkel's view. As I see, he is not a nihilist.
He is just complicated for most people.

Well, it is always a bit more complicated than most people take for granted.

 

[osgart]

No, other than objective reality is independent of my mind, but that is it. It is independent of my mind and that is true, but empty for anything else than independent.
In practice my beliefs about objective reality other than independent are faith. I am just honest about that. Now for the practice including the everyday world and you, it is a bit more complex but that is in part different kinds of faith.

What about gravity? Science may know of gravity, but knowing not exactly how or why it works? But it definitely is there. All we have is a formula for what it does, maybe not what it is.

I used to think gravity was a pressure difference in the environment, high to low when I was a teenager. I thought we were sealed in by high pressure, and gravity was a vacuous state; everything going from high to low til pressure builds up again.

I don't think objective reality is completely knowable, but I don't think it's a simulation either.

Maybe it's Maya, or illusion as to what actually it is.

The senses are reliable enough to navigate it, and do things in it. Planets rotate and stuff.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What about gravity? Science may know of gravity, but knowing not exactly how or why it works? But it definitely is there. All we have is a formula for what it does, maybe not what it is.

I used to think gravity was a pressure difference in the environment, high to low when I was a teenager. I thought we were sealed in by high pressure, and gravity was a vacuous state; everything going from high to low til pressure builds up again.

I don't think objective reality is completely knowable, but I don't think it's a simulation either.

Maybe it's Maya, or illusion as to what actually it is.

The senses are reliable enough to navigate it, and do things in it. Planets rotate and stuff.

Well, for the bold one I think the same, but I don't know that.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I don't think objective reality is completely knowable, but I don't think it's a simulation either.
Maybe it's Maya, or illusion as to what actually it is.
The senses are reliable enough to navigate it, and do things in it. Planets rotate and stuff.

How one would know? You are making a plrophecy and I do not believe in them. We have to work on it.
It is not 'simulation'. As per dictionary.com, simulation is reproduction, clone, copy, counterfeit, etc.
Maya, illusion is appearance of something with a different form and properties from what actually it is.
Yeah, senses and mind, with all their limitations, can take us very far.

 

[osgart]

How one would know? You are making a plrophecy and I do not believe in them. We have to work on it.
It is not 'simulation'. As per dictionary.com, simulation is reproduction, clone, copy, counterfeit, etc.
Maya, illusion is appearance of something with a different form and properties from what actually it is.
Yeah, senses and mind, with all their limitations, can take us very far.

I don't know actually. Maybe the senses and the mind can take us all the way there. There are questions of consciousness, identity, and intelligence that throw me off that path. But who knows really if that can be probed to the point of detecting someone's inner experience.

There's a scientist, Donald Hoffman, who studies the very question of whether or not reality is as perceived, or we evolved to see a user interface with reality for survival payoffs, and not the truth of reality as it actually is.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Indian religions have understood that since the last 2,700 years if not more, That is when Chandogya Upanishad said "Tat twam Asi" (a simple translation, "You yourself are that").

 

[dybmh]

At a certain point, a god is nothing more than an angel. How would you as a primitive person distinguish between one of these other gods and an angel?

@Aupmanyav, I don't recall getting an answer to this question. Would you please share your thoughts on this? I feel like it resolves the contradiction you observed.

 

[Soapy]

I don't know and I don't care. My personal faith in my version of God works for me. So I gave in the end a pragmatic answer as a variant of true.

Any variant of truth ultimately results in a lie….

 

[blü 2]

Any variant of truth ultimately results in a lie….

You don't distinguish between lies and errors, then?

Any error in the bible is not an error but a lie?

 

[Windwalker]

Any variant of truth ultimately results in a lie….

Nonsense. It results in a different perception of truth. It is only a lie to those who cannot allow for other perceptions than their own to be true. And that is where the true error lies.

 

[wellwisher]

Question: Who is God?

Answer: Yes!

( Hint: The question is the answer. )

God is a mind expanding premise, that opens the mind to infinite possibilities beyond the five senses. This is why there are so many expressions of God. Faith requires one exist at the frontiers of reality where space-time separates into space and time.

Space-time is the realm of the five senses. While space and time not connected is a different realm. If one could move in space without being connected to time, you could be omnipresent, which is a classic attribute of God.

I reverse engineered that mind expanding thought; omnipresent, to create simple math, so other can see at the frontiers; space-time plus separated space and separated time. Quantum Coupling is not exactly connected to space-time since it appears to exceed the speed of light. All we need to do is add distance potential; omnipresent affect, from the separated space variable. We hold the extra time variable constant. Quantum Coupling is space-time---space.

 

[Soapy]

You don't distinguish between lies and errors, then?

Any error in the bible is not an error but a lie?

An error can do the same thing, of course, but errors are generally not deliberate lies. Variations that are knowingly different (Lies), like writing, ‘Lord’ instead of ‘LORD’… the first is a title which anyone of great reverence can be labelled, the latter the name of the only true God.

No one who is writing truthfully (speaking doesn’t highlight a difference) about the LORD (which is the ETERNAL NAME of the one true God, should never write ‘Lord’ for ‘LORD’ as that changes the whole contextual meaning.

Repeating the error of ‘Lord’ instead of ‘LORD’ leads to an established claimed where others are unaware of the deliberate variation or error and we can end up with something like:

• ‘Jesus is God because Scriptures says “the Lord created the heavens and the earth” and scriptures says Jesus is Lord’

When propagated through writing who could then dispute the erroneous claim unless some evidence came to the fore that there was a variation / error concerning ‘Lord’ and ‘LORD’.

But even worse is that many will refuse to acknowledge the variation / error and continue to propagate the false teaching.

We can write a Paraphrase which contains the essential truth of a point but it should not contain anything that could act as a shortcut to whag is not in the original:

• ‘I did not call myself God’

is a paraphrase since Jesus didn’t use those exact words BUT since his response to the Jews was that ‘Even almighty God called men of holiness who received the word of God, he called “Gods”! (Paraphrased) it stands to reason that the essential truth is there that Jesus was DENYING EVEN calling himself that. In fact the very words: ‘I SAID ONLY That God is my Father’ tells us the paraphrase works. And continued propagation of this does not lead to wrongful belief:

• Jesus Christ is not almighty God, never claimed to be God, and no one ever called him God… the claim against him was a false claim that he was ‘Making himself EQUAL TO GOD’… and we know that no one can be EQUAL to God…

There we see the error dispelled but we know that (as I pointed out) the lie can be seductive and many will continue to believe it despite the truth being pointed out to them.

 

[Soapy]

Nonsense. It results in a different perception of truth. It is only a lie to those who cannot allow for other perceptions than their own to be true. And that is where the true error lies.

View attachment 80314

A different PERCEPTION OF TRUTH???

Truth is one as God is one. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Truth. That is why we are warned not to ‘Grieve the Spirit of God’. Grieving the Spirit of God is grieving the truth and if truth is grieved then all is lost!

You mean like the deception that ‘EQUAL TO GOD’ means ‘IS GOD’ even though GOD says there is no one besides him and who can be compared to Him?

It is this very ‘Variation of Truth’ that leads to confusion and acceptance of deceit.

 

[Soapy]

Nonsense. It results in a different perception of truth. It is only a lie to those who cannot allow for other perceptions than their own to be true. And that is where the true error lies.

View attachment 80314

Just realised the image you posted…

The ’SQUARE’ is not true…. It is a deception in terms of true shape. The true shape us a Cylinder whose end region is a proper (full) circle.

The side on view gives the illusion of a block but if examined closer it would be found to have fuzzy edges on the length showing that there are more than one defined edge on each side.

I appreciate the attempt in the example but No! It doesn’t work as you think but in fact fully supports the points I demonstrated to you.

I remember in the film ‘Top Gun’ where an enemy aircraft was detected and two fighters plains were sent up to intercept it. The radar operators did not check their instruments display properly and only at a dangerous point was it detected that there were actually FOUR ‘Bogeys’ (two pairs) and another fighter plane had to be scrambled hurriedly to intercept the threat almost to the detriment of the defenders.

Here, the truth was a variant: Four, not one! (Would be great example of it were Three from a trinitarian view point - the film producers missed a trick there!!) Had the truth not been detected before the thread became paramount, just as when truth if scriptures is subverted, there will be disaster our consequences in the future!

 

[Windwalker]

A different PERCEPTION OF TRUTH???

YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

Truth is one as God is one. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Truth. That is why we are warned not to ‘Grieve the Spirit of God’. Grieving the Spirit of God is grieving the truth and if truth is grieved then all is lost!

Grieving the Spirit has nothing to do with you being confused by having your thinking about these matters challenged. It's okay to not understand some things. It's not ok to blame others and call them blasphemers and whatnot when you don't get it.

You mean like the deception that ‘EQUAL TO GOD’ means ‘IS GOD’ even though GOD says there is no one besides him and who can be compared to Him?

I don't recall addressing this question with you.

It is this very ‘Variation of Truth’ that leads to confusion and acceptance of deceit.

It's fascinating how you brand everything that your mind can't grasp, or that is outside how you perceive things to be as, deceits and lies. That's to me demonstrates a lack of humility.

 

[blü 2]

An error can do the same thing, of course, but errors are generally not deliberate lies.

My point was that you spoke as if they were. Good to clear these things up.

Variations that are knowingly different (Lies), like writing, ‘Lord’ instead of ‘LORD’… the first is a title which anyone of great reverence can be labelled, the latter the name of the only true God.

No one who is writing truthfully (speaking doesn’t highlight a difference) about the LORD (which is the ETERNAL NAME of the one true God, should never write ‘Lord’ for ‘LORD’ as that changes the whole contextual meaning.

But that's a matter of good manners, of proper customary behavior, of the rules of one particular orthography ─ and not of truth, error, or lies, surely?

• Jesus is God because Scriptures says “the Lord created the heavens and the earth” and scriptures says Jesus is Lord’

Of course Paul says his Jesus created everything (which would include the heavens and the earth), and John says his Jesus created everything, though no such claim is made by or for the synoptic Jesuses.

However, all five Jesuses expressly state they're not God (simply God's envoy) and never claim to be God.