Where did all the Muslims, in RFs, go?!

[sooda]

Ok, the story goes like this for the Jews:
After Moses established the Jewish Faith, and left the world, the Jews gradually divided into sects. According to some traditions they became 72 sects. The sects had conflicts and wars with each other. Then once Jesus came, and claimed to be Their promised Messiah, they rejected Jesus as their Messiah. After that the Jews were weakened and when In those days, the Jews went through some wars with other nations, they lost the wars, and they had to flee and get exiled. Thus they left their homelands and got spread in many other countries. Thus, although the Jews had become a strong nation before Christ, later they were weakened, and were exiled.
The parallel of it, is, when Muhammad passed, the Muslims gradually became divided, and according to some traditions 72 sects, same as Jews. Then there were conflicts among sects. Though they became a powerful nation, when different Califs came, until when the Bab appeared and claimed to be their promised Mahdi. They rejected the Bab as their promised Mahdi. After that, the Muslim Ottoman empire who were a powerful nation before, went through war in the world war, and lost in the wars. The Muslims nations became weakened, and now they are still in war, and many of them (Syrians, Iraqies, Iranians...) started to leave their homeland and came to other countries, and this is just the beginning for them.

You need to study some history.

 

[dybmh]

Why would a true Muslim (by your reckoning) support Sharia, since it is so harsh?

When did I say the words "True Muslim"?

I have to stop here before answering further. Because, those words might be offensive to Muslims. And I would never say that.

 

[dybmh]

Are you narrowly defining terrorism to exclude blasphemy and apostasy laws here?

Yes. I am.

 

[dybmh]

For it to be a straw man there would have to be no-one giving it a free pass, but if it were not getting to free a pass in places like Pakistan Junaid Hafeez would not have received a death sentence due to the application of Fiqh.

It’s free pass has to be challenged here precisely because it can’t safely be challenged in the likes of Pakistan.

This sounds circular to me. I never ever advocated for a "free-pass".

That's just not what I said. I'm sorry. I guess I'm out, if you're going to keep pushing on this.

 

[danieldemol]

Yes. I am.

How disingenuous. Oh well at least you are honest about it.

 

[dybmh]

How disingenuous. Oh well at least you are honest about it.

You just contradicted yourself...

Well done.

 

[danieldemol]

You just contradicted yourself...

Well done.

What I meant to say was how unintelligent of you , but at least you were honest about it

 

[Notanumber]

Bad apples spoil the bunch...

The loudest people with the most extreme behavior are deemed to be representative of the collective.

It's text book stereotyping.

The most dangerous textbook is the Quran.

 

[dybmh]

What I meant to say was how unintelligent of you , but at least you were honest about it

... perhaps you meant "uninformed"... or "my arguments are unintelligent"?

 

[dybmh]

@Shia Islam ,

Well, I think it's quite obvious what is happening here on RF.

1) Being courteous to Muslims is optional because their beliefs aren't deemed to be peaceful. Whether or not their actions are peaceful are not relevant.
2) People assume that all Muslims are 100% identical.
3) Identifying as a Muslim is all that is needed to invite scrutiny and criticism.
4) While debating, individuals here misrepresent the claims made by Muslims or people who defend Islam. They set up straw men and do not debate in good faith.
5) Name calling and lack of empathy are not uncommon either.

It's not a very friendly environment for someone who identifies as a Muslim...

Blessings to you and others who remain here in spite of these challenging circumstances.

Sincerely,

 

[dybmh]

The most dangerous textbook is the Quran.

I have a few copies here in my home...

...Where my wife and kids live... what in the world should I do about it? Are we in danger????



You're post reminds me of that Disney movie, "Monsters Inc." Ya know, the movie where the cute little monster tries to be scary, but it just can't figure out how to do it. It's adorable.

 

[danieldemol]

... perhaps you meant "uninformed"... or "my arguments are unintelligent"?

I meant that excessively narrowly defining terrorism to exclude blasphemy and apostasy laws is unintelligent.

 

[dybmh]

I meant that excessively narrowly defining terrorism to exclude blasphemy and apostasy laws is unintelligent.

They are two different problems. I think you are over simplifying this.

A terrorist has a completely different mindset than the members of an Authoritarian Theocratic regime and the people who support them.

The remedy for Terrorism is Law Enforcement.
The remedy for Authoritarianism is not.

 

[dybmh]

@danieldemol ,

Do you see Islam as a disease? Are Muslims somehow flawed or sick in your opinion?

 

[danieldemol]

They are two different problems. I think you are over simplifying this.

A terrorist has a completely different mindset than the members of an Authoritarian Theocratic regime and the people who support them.

I don’t see it that way, both intend to terrorise people into outward submission and silence dissent.

The remedy for Terrorism is Law Enforcement.
The remedy for Authoritarianism is not.

They have different remedies because the authoritarian has the law on his side, so obviously law enforcement cannot be used as a remedy. But the differing remedies do not mean that the underlying problem is not the same.

 

[danieldemol]

@danieldemol ,

Do you see Islam as a disease? Are Muslims somehow flawed or sick in your opinion?

No I do not see it that way. I do however see people who support apostasy and blasphemy laws as lacking empathy and the critical thinking to identify how both of these laws are not healthy to the functioning of an ever advancing society.

 

[dybmh]

I don’t see it that way, both intend to terrorise people into outward submission and silence dissent.

This is a shallow over simplified view of the issue.

They have different remedies because the authoritarian has the law on his side, so obviously law enforcement cannot be used as a remedy. But the differing remedies do not mean that the underlying problem is not the same.

Same as above.

 

[dybmh]

No I do not see it that way. I do however see people who support apostasy and blasphemy laws as lacking empathy and the critical thinking to identify how both of these laws are not healthy to the functioning of an ever advancing society.

I have looked for examples of apostasy laws being enforced and I couldn't find any in modern history. Can you provide any examples?

The punishment for blasphemy laws in the most extreme cases is imprisonment? Am I wrong about this?

Correction: There is 1 example in Sudan: And the men charged were released on bail. it was in 2015. ( link )

 

[danieldemol]

I have looked for examples of apostasy laws being enforced and I couldn't find any in modern history. Can you provide any examples?

The punishment for blasphemy laws in the most extreme cases is imprisonment? Am I wrong about this?

Correction: There is 1 example in Sudan: And the men charged were released on bail. it was in 2015. ( link )

Junaid Hafeez sits in solitary confinement because the lower courts have upheld his death sentence conviction. This is a gross miscarriage of justice - he simply never should have been arrested. Even his arrest let alone his jailing is an example of blasphemy laws being enforced.

 

[danieldemol]

Correction: There is 1 example in Sudan: And the men charged were released on bail. it was in 2015. ( link )

According to your link it was 25 cases jailed for 5weeks before being released on bail with the hearings only suspended to a later date