where are the differences between Anti-theistic and Atheistic

[Maya3]

I honestly think that atheism and dharmic religions have more in common then dharmic religions and Abrahamic religions.

So do I.

Maya

 

[Koldo]

Koldo, one of the problems some of us have is that generalisation. For Hindus in particular, we're often faced with what I would term false accusations based on other's notions of what religion is. It's understandable, given what a person may get exposed to. My own brother, an atheist, won't even give me the light of day, as his experiences with religion (not Hinduism - he has no experiences with Hinduism) have been so negative, so he can't get as far as even having a simple discussion, so powerful is the anti-religion in him.

Yes, I suppose I do get some solace out of my daily puja, and meditation. But that's not the primary purpose. I'd get more solace out of going for a walk in a park.

It appears there is a misunderstanding here:
I have never stated, nor intended to imply, that the primary purpose of any religion is to provide solace.

EDIT: Also, I bet your mindset ( influenced by your religion ) would take a major role on the solace you find when going for a walk in a park.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Hhim ji

I think it's correct to say that anti-theists would oppose any concept of deity, but the opposition is often most visible as opposition to Abrahamic faiths.

yes , at the moment that is how it appears , but what some Hindus are begining to notice is that this Anti (Christian) Theism is begining to spread to a distrust and an opely antagonistic approach to any religion that they deem to be Theistic , ....

what concerns me greatly is that such antagonistic attitudes seem to be governed by some sort of element of fear , ....on the whole the atheist dosent bother any one he simply says ''I dont beleive'' , ...But the Anti-theist seems to be far more aggresively opposed .

it would seem that Theism forms some kind of threat th the Anti-theist is it the concept of Deity that realy disturbs him if so why ? what is disturbing about the concept of a Deity ?

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Madhuri ji

Atheists are simple people who either lack a belief in a Deity or believe that there is no Deity.

An anti-theist is someone specifically opposed to/against theism. These are the people who get angry by ideas of theism and can be militant in opposing ideas relating to theism/religious beliefs.

these are my thoughts exactly ,

but what is it that makes the Anti-theist millitant , ...what is so threatening about anothers acceptance of a god like figure ?

 

[Chakra]

namaskaram Madhuri ji



these are my thoughts exactly ,

but what is it that makes the Anti-theist millitant , ...what is so threatening about anothers acceptance of a god like figure ?

I guess it's the same old stuff. Theistic thought is a danger to human welfare, scientific growth, etc.

 

[Quintessence]

I guess it's the same old stuff. Theistic thought is a danger to human welfare, scientific growth, etc.

Which is rubbish. (A)theism, in of itself, means almost nothing.

Unless, of course, one is comfortable making a whole bunch of assumptions about (a)theism that aren't actually true of (a)theism in general, but are characteristic of specific ideologies within (a)theism or other associated movements like (ir)religion. To generalize that (a)theism is somehow an issue is utter rubbish. It fails to recognize that identical ideas can produce dramatically different behavioral and ideological consequences. Which is particularly important when discussing (a)theism, because declaring oneself (a)theist merely begs the question "what are gods?"

 

[Vinayaka]

It appears there is a misunderstanding here:
I have never stated, nor intended to imply, that the primary purpose of any religion is to provide solace.

Sorry, then I don't what you're trying to say. There was a lot about comfort zone. But I'm not clear what that means even.

As for the walk in a park, I was born in a very rural place, and was outside all summer long, walking in a river valley, or through a bush. Yes it was comfortable, but it hardly has much to do with my faith. I enjoyed walking in forests long before I found Hinduism. It's the farmer in me that finds comfort there, not my religion.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Luis ji

An atheist does not believe in deities. An anti-theist thinks everyone would be better off not believing in deities. And an Anti-Theist is probably one who tells you so up front.

excuse me asking such a direct question , ...but Why ? .....what makes the Anti-theist so sure of his position that he feels that he can decide what is best for others ?
and what makes him feel that he is in a position to impose his veiw on others ?

Yes. Everyone should oppose misguided Theism. And it is to be expected, and all too reasonable, that some people will find Theism itself inherently mistaken.

but on whos autority do you take anothers beleifs to be missguided ???

or should we just acccept each others veiw ?

Of course, that too. There is no point in attempting to "convert" people from theism to atheism or vice-versa. Acceptance does not mean silence, nor agreement, though.

but what bothers me is what appears to a theist to be at times an agressive attack .

Why does it bother you? How is that different or worse than disagreements about whether Krishna is Vishnu's Avatar or rather the other way around, or whether Hindus will burn in Hell due to their refusal to accept Jesus or the Quran?

I dont think any religion minds discussion or minds another sect holding mildly differering veiwpoints but what is so distructive is this attempt to convert whether it comes from a Christian , a Muslim or an Anti theist .

Why is refusal of theism at all a problem?

Anti-theism is not just a refusal of Theism , it seems to be a an assault on Theism

one interesting point raised in the previous thread was that Anti-theists were only Anti Christian in their sentiments

how true would most anti-theists hold this to be ?

No, that is not really accurate. Most of us, I figure, oppose Islam as well for much the same reasons. Quite a few are anti-supernaturalists to some degree as well.

this is an interesting point , am I to assume that you consider a god to be super natural ?

I personally oppose most any cult or belief I see as destructive, while supporting many I disagree with (such as Mormons or the current Catholic tendency). But there is much wrong in, say, Kardecist Spiritism or Rajneesh's movement that ought to be spoken against.

agreed that one ought to speak out against cults which go against the religious principles of the traditions that they are closely affiliated to , after all I just spoke out against Shree Bhagavan Rajneesh , because he teaches what many outsiders would take for yogic principles yet what he teaches actualy goes against both Hindu and Buddhist principles and therefore stands to both disscredit the traditions which he loosly bases his teacings upon and stands to seriously delude his followers , ....however I feel it is up to the traditions that the cult most closely models it self upon to disclose the offender as a fraud , ...I forinstance can hardly speak out against a dubious Christian sect as I do not have enough experience to speak out on such a subject .

in such a way I am not sure that a non beleiver can speak out about beieiff as he has no experience of it .
and it must be said that a lack of experience is hardly sufficient to qualify anyone to pass judgement on another .

The way I see it, silence is just no more respectful than honest challenging of things we care about and that we find wrong.

to be Honest theists on the whole do not dissrespect Science we simply feel that it has its limitations , prehaps we are not so totaly preocupied with the material world , we accknowledge its presence but also realise its temporary nature , ...it is simply that the Theist sees beyond material nature and cares about things on a very different level , knowing there to be more than material nature alone .

 

[Sha'irullah]

I still don't understand why anti-theism is a big deal to people. I am particularly concerned with Islam and Hinduism since they are the next two major religions trying to take over the world (lols). I think people misrepresent or don't understand us anti-theist and especially staunch anti-theist. We are loving and kind people, many of us understand why you hold on to your belief in a god or gods in this case. Nietzsche for example found it sad that god did not exist. He found it to be a massive crunch humanity has become accustom to and that much of our happiness comes from religious thinking. He felt that it must be replaced with productive philosophy modeled after the therapeutic style of the Greeks.

So when I hear people saying that anti-theists are somehow trying to attack religion because they are hateful this breaks my heart. They mention people like Dawkins who is not even an anti-theist and then they bring up Hitchens who although being an anti-theist is an anti-religionist. It is best to understand that anti-theism is merely the belief that theism must be opposed aggressively.

Anti-theism is a belief that comes from a lack of belief in a god. Various reasons exist for anti-theism but it is all anti-theism nonetheless.

And anti-theism is NOT...

• Mockery of religion
• Hatred towards god/religion
• Hatred of religious people
• Ridicule of religious customs

 

[Windwalker]

There is something to that, Vinayaka.. But as it turns out, theistic belief is vulnerable to forms of abuse that just can't happen in Atheism or anti- theism.

Wanna bet? There are plenty of holes in it too. Just because it debates against mythic belief systems doesn't make it impervious to higher forms of scrutiny. It's like saying a teenager is invincible because he can beat up on a grade schooler. That's all good and fine until some college kid comes along who knows better.

The idea of some sort of simetry is appealling, but also unfounded.

I would say its very well founded, and sauce for the goose is indeed sauce for the gander.

At worst, Atheism and anti- theism can simply be disagreed with and ignored, which turns out to be about as good as different theisms usually can expect from each other.

Which is why I fail to understand how come anti-theism troubles anyone at all.

Anti-theism is generally understood as an activist atheism against religion. In this sense, it's like those who come to your door with Bibles in their hands trying to sell you on their beliefs. Both trouble me inasmuch as they're pretty much the same thing.

 

[Sha'irullah]

.....what makes the Anti-theist so sure of his position that he feels that he can decide what is best for others ?

Sorry to intrude on your conversation but this is a REALLY common remark against anti-theism that is ultra fallacious. You should NEVER say this ever because when you apply it to logic it just sounds moronic (no offense). Your religion is an emotional expression and apart of your beliefs and individuality so I understand why you would take offense to anti-theism but I will explain why this comment which is made by so many is stupid (I mean no offense, again).

Anti-theists are not trying to decide anything for you at all. Anti-theism oppose theism the same way people oppose serial killers. If a person is against something then that means they find it bad and perhaps dangerous. You have a right to think what you like and do what you like but the issue is doing not thinking. When people do religious things such as circumcise babies, kill and mutilate little girls this is why theism is oppose.
Are you not against dictatorships, murderers and thieves? An anti-theist finds this fundamentally no different.

In Islamic countries so much evil is done in the name of Allah and in America it is Jesus. Anti-theists often feel that opposing the notion of a god is better because if you remove the authority from a religion you can keep the religion and let it be. You should really hear what people like Daniel Dennet have to say about this ideal.

So saying that anti-theists are trying to decide what is best for others is no different than people deciding it is best to to lock away a murderer and I am sure you hold that belief. Anti-theists find theism to be inherently evil and a quick flash on the news support about 80% of anti-theists claims.

 

[Bunyip]

Anti-theism is bigotry. Atheism is not.

So is being pro-theism bigotry?

 

[Maya3]

I am particularly concerned with Islam and Hinduism since they are the next two major religions trying to take over the world

We are trying to take over the world? Since when?
And how are we doing that exactly?

Maya

 

[Bunyip]

namaskaram Hhim ji



yes , at the moment that is how it appears , but what some Hindus are begining to notice is that this Anti (Christian) Theism is begining to spread to a distrust and an opely antagonistic approach to any religion that they deem to be Theistic , ....

what concerns me greatly is that such antagonistic attitudes seem to be governed by some sort of element of fear , ....on the whole the atheist dosent bother any one he simply says ''I dont beleive'' , ...But the Anti-theist seems to be far more aggresively opposed .

it would seem that Theism forms some kind of threat th the Anti-theist is it the concept of Deity that realy disturbs him if so why ? what is disturbing about the concept of a Deity ?

I thought that was pretty obvious - what atheists find disturbing about the concept of deities is the belief theists have in imaginary supernatural beings influencing our lives.

 

[Vinayaka]

I thought that was pretty obvious - what atheists find disturbing about the concept of deities is the belief theists have in imaginary supernatural beings influencing our lives.

Yes indeed I do find that disturbing ... the idea of God being some sort of puppeteer manipulating us humans. Sort of takes any power we may have had right out of our hands doesn't it? Besides, it just makes no sense. Problem is ... the Hindu concept of God doesn't jive with this. Something like 'underlying energy flowing through all form' would be more like it. It is no coincidence Nataraja, the Hindu God, is acknowledged via a scupture outside the particle collider in Switzerland.

 

[Bunyip]

Yes indeed I do find that disturbing ... the idea of God being some sort of puppeteer manipulating us humans. Sort of takes any power we may have had right out of our hands doesn't it? Besides, it just makes no sense. Problem is ... the Hindu concept of God doesn't jive with this.

Exactly, which is why Hinduism has nothing to fear from atheism or anti-theism. Theism is the worship of those 'puppeteer' gods. As others have pointed out here Hinduism has more in common with atheism than with theism.

Something like 'underlying energy flowing through all form' would be more like it. It is no coincidence Nataraja, the Hindu God, is acknowledged via a scupture outside the particle collider in Switzerland.

 

[Chakra]

Sorry to intrude on your conversation but this is a REALLY common remark against anti-theism that is ultra fallacious. You should NEVER say this ever because when you apply it to logic it just sounds moronic (no offense). Your religion is an emotional expression and apart of your beliefs and individuality so I understand why you would take offense to anti-theism but I will explain why this comment which is made by so many is stupid (I mean no offense, again).

Anti-theists are not trying to decide anything for you at all. Anti-theism oppose theism the same way people oppose serial killers. If a person is against something then that means they find it bad and perhaps dangerous. You have a right to think what you like and do what you like but the issue is doing not thinking. When people do religious things such as circumcise babies, kill and mutilate little girls this is why theism is oppose.
Are you not against dictatorships, murderers and thieves? An anti-theist finds this fundamentally no different.

In Islamic countries so much evil is done in the name of Allah and in America it is Jesus. Anti-theists often feel that opposing the notion of a god is better because if you remove the authority from a religion you can keep the religion and let it be. You should really hear what people like Daniel Dennet have to say about this ideal.

So saying that anti-theists are trying to decide what is best for others is no different than people deciding it is best to to lock away a murderer and I am sure you hold that belief. Anti-theists find theism to be inherently evil and a quick flash on the news support about 80% of anti-theists claims.

Could you create a separate forum on what you think is the problem with Hinduism? I (and many others) would be interested on what anti-theists think about Hinduism.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Could you create a separate forum on what you think is the problem with Hinduism? I (and many others) would be interested on what anti-theists think about Hinduism.

To be honest I really don't wanna do it. My issues with Hinduism are not in depth and rather lacking in explanation. I really don't feel prepared to answer any questions on it. It just wont make a good thread if I start it

 

[Madhuri]

namaskaram Madhuri ji



these are my thoughts exactly ,

but what is it that makes the Anti-theist millitant , ...what is so threatening about anothers acceptance of a god like figure ?

The same reason that makes any person militant. Don't we all sometimes get a little angry or frustrated with people who see to believe in what we consider to be really stupid and even dangerous or negative beliefs? Some people go even further and take very strong issue with a certain group. Religious people are often militant in disliking other religions and trying to preach and convert others. I think that an anti-theist is just the same.

 

[Chakra]

To be honest I really don't wanna do it. My issues with Hinduism are not in depth and rather lacking in explanation. I really don't feel prepared to answer any questions on it. It just wont make a good thread if I start it

Okay. It's your choice .