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When the Corporate World Gains too Much Power

Discussion in 'Human Affairs, Political Movements and Charities' started by Cooky, Jan 30, 2021.

  1. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    There is no the people in the sense you talk about it. You still need minority rights, a constitution and so on. Otherwise it can turn into a dictatorship of the majority.
     
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  2. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    That's why the social scientists elected to write the proposals will be the cream of the crop, highly educated professors, doctors, and historians of the highest standard. They won't be allowing regressive options. And it will be peer reviewed.
     
    #42 Cooky, Jan 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  3. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    Think outside of what's normal...

     
  4. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    It is not possible to do that. One person's freedom is another person's regressive options. There is no objective morality or standard and to believe that people, who have gone to universities are better at this, is without any evidence. It is your subjective bias. I also have mine.

    So here is what history teaches us. It is not about making the best possible system. It is about making a system that can't be taking over by any one flavor of "right; good and what not", but allows for the exchange of ideas and most people that say in which ideas should be used.
    To quote Churchill: Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

    Never try to make a privileged class of people run anything as large as a society. It will always end up in a less free society.
     
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  5. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    So your fear is of the majority taking aim at minorities... You think there's no way around that?

    There is one way. Dividing civil rights laws from all other potential new laws... Such as how to handle pollution, or economics... Only *these* things then will be allowed to be entered into ballot measure style computer questionnaires. And rights will be kept according to the current ways.

    Problem solved. :cool:

     
  6. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Wonder if you could write a post without denouncing greed.

    Even better, without always this bright line
    US V Them, good v evil.
     
  7. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Great idea, but to vague. Let me explain how. There is no strong coherent set of rights, that add up.
    Let me give you a practical example for my wife's line of work. She is a social worker and nursing assistant.

    You now have a human, which limited cognitive capabilities, which can't make an informed choice. I.e. the person can't control his/her diet and will get severe diabetes, overweight and so on, but he/she really wants the "bad" food.
    Here are in the end the 2 "rights" at play. To have a shorter life based on the "bad" habits of the person or to have a longer life based on science in the end.
    So how do you ask those questions? Well, it depends on how you value freedom, a good life and so on.

    So a dilemma turns up in many places. Here is one for economics in a sense: Should someone by allowed to make computer generated simulations of pedophilia and make money on that?

    Further: "... And rights will be kept according to the current ways." If you had studied history, you would know, that there are no current ways of rights. Rights also shift over time. If you want it from history in the western cultural tradition.
    Rights belonged to free Greek men, who could serve in the military and who had property.
    Today we debate whether animals should have rights. And it goes further. I am in a sense of those experts, because I have studied philosophy. So should trees have rights? I know, but it is not that simple.

    I mean it. It is a terrible idea to have a privileged class of people to determine what is right or wrong. Or in your words: To ask the prober and correct questions.
     
  8. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I think anything under public user access should have constitutional protection including freedom of speech.

    I perceive its going to be a huge issue eventually.
     
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  9. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I think simple general regulations like that outlined for public access media would be sensible, but not so much that it suppresses one group over anothers objections when it comes to content.
     
  10. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    You've never looked on twitter then? Free, independent brilliant thinkers?
     
  11. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    I have news for you... California already does ballot measures... We do everything as I explained except going further, we have no computerized questioneer... We do it all via written ballot.

    So when you say "it's not possible", and "it's a terrible idea", California has already tested it, and it actually works.
     
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  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Not at all. Trump agreed to abide by a set of rules on those sights. He was found to be violating those rules. That in no way is comparable to a dictatorship, as all that happened was Trump broke rules he agreed to follow and he paid the consequences.
    Amd this tech power, if you actually take the time to read these agreements and terms of usage it way more resembles a dystopian cyberpunk setting like Robocop (the original/real one) than a dictatorship.
     
  13. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    Here is a place to research every ballot measure ever issued in the United States... Amd what's upcoming in 2021, I believe.

    Statewide Ballot Measures Database

    One that we tried to pull off here, but failed, was to eliminate the bail system, where those arrested would either be allowed to leave and come back based on the gravity of their crime, and not on money:

    From the link above:
    Overturn a 2018 Law that Replaced Money Bail System with a System Based on Public Safety Risk
    Proposition 25

    Election: General - 2020
    Type: Popular Referendum
    Status: Fail (Yes votes: 44%)
    Topic Areas: Criminal Justice
    Summary: Click for Summary
     
    #53 Cooky, Jan 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  14. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    What if citizens decided they wanted to eliminate some of those rules... Would a proposition to be voted on at the federal level, like a CA prop., be out of line?
     
  15. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    Are they exhibiting a dictatorship-like authoritarianism when they choose who they censor? Is that "free market"? Or more like a communistic market?
     
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  16. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    I am in perfect agreement with you, and a huge part of that is also drastically limiting how much businesses can contribute to political campaigns. (This would have the corollary, and very beneficial, effect of shrinking campaigning overall. Nobody needs electioneering lasting months and months. Canada elects a national government in 37-48 days, rarely ever any longer than that.)

    And in such a model, you can still do all the "social" things that governments can, in fact, do fairly well (if they approach them properly), through building a fairer tax system. That includes prisons, of course, as well as the other side, social welfare (which is NOT socialism, folks).
     
    #56 Evangelicalhumanist, Jan 30, 2021
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  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    One option is to petition the government to step in and enforce fair, consumer friendly terms. Many nations have already done this, and their terms of service are not long, complicated, confusing, and tend to not trample on consumer-ownership, unlike the profound anti-consumer policies here.
    Another option is to just not use those services.

    Having the rules you agreed to abide by but violated anyways and having the consequences dealt for violating those rules is absolutely nothing an authoritarian state. It's definitely more of a free-market thing, as those business are free to make their user agreements stack very heavily against the consumer.
     
  18. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    When rules are only applied to those who you disagree with... it is wrong.

    When they censor one group but let the Ayatollah on... that is dictatorship.
     
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  19. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    I agree... but you didn't answer my questions.
     
  20. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    Any censorship is dictatorial in nature. Its why the first thing dictators take over is the media.
     
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