Whats up with France?

[Altfish]

I WISH
I wish Russia succeeded in destabilizing Brussels and certain élites...once Le Pen becomes president it will become easy as pie

Have you never studied history?

 

[Flankerl]

Don't get any information from Vice. Tis a stupid place.

 

[HonestJoe]

Things are getting interesting (to say the least) in France and may be spreading to other European countries (according to a few Youtube videos). How do you see this playing out?

”What do we want? WE’VE NOT DECIDED YET! When do we want it? NOW!”

We no central leadership (which they irrationally see as a benefit) and no realistic definitive demands, I can’t see it going anywhere and it will probably quietly die down in the run up to Christmas. The only way it could build in to something more significant would be is some charismatic leader rose from it or co-opted it as the basis for a serious political challenge but there don’t seem to be any prospects for that and it’s probably too late for anyone to get on board now.

My only fear would be escalation of the violence, especially if someone dies in the rioting. Anything that could be vaguely spun up as being the fault of the government or police would be used by the violently minded as an excuse to continue.

 

[Rival]

”What do we want? WE’VE NOT DECIDED YET! When do we want it? NOW!”

We no central leadership (which they irrationally see as a benefit) and no realistic definitive demands, I can’t see it going anywhere and it will probably quietly die down in the run up to Christmas. The only way it could build in to something more significant would be is some charismatic leader rose from it or co-opted it as the basis for a serious political challenge but there don’t seem to be any prospects for that and it’s probably too late for anyone to get on board now.

My only fear would be escalation of the violence, especially if someone dies in the rioting. Anything that could be vaguely spun up as being the fault of the government or police would be used by the violently minded as an excuse to continue.

 

[ChristineM]

Things are getting interesting (to say the least) in France and may be spreading to other European countries (according to a few Youtube videos). How do you see this playing out?

Its Its already spread far and wide.

Yellow vests movement - Wikipedia

 

[Marcion]

Things are getting interesting (to say the least) in France and may be spreading to other European countries (according to a few Youtube videos). How do you see this playing out?

I've no idea how it is going to play out in the end.
There are some interesting developments starting that strive for the reformation of Europe:
One is the DiEM25 movement started mainly by Varoufakis:

https://diem25.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/diem25_english_short.pdf
What next for the Gilets Jaunes?
European Spring

Another is the recent Manifesto of Thomas Piketty:

Our manifesto to save Europe from itself | Thomas Piketty

It depends if the yellow vests will somehow be able to connect ideologically to these more intellectually organized movements if they will have much of an impact in the long run.
Perhaps the visual aspect of the yellow vests can act as a binding force that makes people realise that their problems cannot be solved on a national level. Populist forces will also try to connect to these desperate people and make them believe that a united Europe is part of the problem and we should blame immigration and loose morals.

 

[Estro Felino]

 

[Estro Felino]

. Populist forces will also try to connect to these desperate people and make them believe that a united Europe is part of the problem and we should blame immigration and loose morals.

Populists are not against a United Europe
Populists and Souverainists are against a Europe led by a technocratic élite which de facto creates a bankers' dictatorship.
Tell me how the interests of the banking system are compatible with the people's needs

 

[HonestJoe]

...

I knew this would come up, hence my careful wording. That’s not a specific demand being protested over, it’s an extensive political manifesto (apparently written after the protests started and got violent too). Even taken individually, many of the items couldn’t be done quickly (if at all) or are generic concepts rather than specific policy. How could it be a means by which to end the protests on that basis? How could the government realistically respond to that in a way to authors would deem acceptable? Could it be that it’s written with that impossibility in mind, to create a scenario where the government is destined to fail whatever it does?

There’s also the issue of where that list came from and who actually agreed to it. I suspect the vast majority of the protesters and all of the rioters weren’t in any way involved in deciding on the list so there’s no way to know if they agree and so even if the government somehow did all of them, no guarantee of any kind it would actually end the protest (let alone the associated violence). That’s why the celebrated lack of leadership is such an issue. As I said, it’s essentially a political manifesto and there are already democratic means by which those can be offered to the French people. Trying to bring that level of political change in by violence could even be called terrorism.

 

[Rival]

That’s not a specific demand being protested over,

So?

it’s an extensive political manifesto (apparently written after the protests started and got violent too).

Yes.

Even taken individually, many of the items couldn’t be done quickly (if at all) or are generic concepts rather than specific policy.

Yes, because this is how the working people see things. They are not familiar with the intricacies of government, but they are experiencing problems linked to it and they want them fixed. I doubt anyone is expecting it to be fixed in a week.

How could it be a means by which to end the protests on that basis?

Macron and the rest of his government could hold talks with them in a diplomatic fashion and they could go over their demands one by one. They could be voted on by the French Parliament.

How could the government realistically respond to that in a way to authors would deem acceptable?

See above.

Could it be that it’s written with that impossibility in mind, to create a scenario where the government is destined to fail whatever it does?

Probably not. It's just working class people voicing themselves in language they understand.

There’s also the issue of where that list came from and who actually agreed to it.

I doubt it came out of thin air.

I suspect the vast majority of the protesters and all of the rioters weren’t in any way involved in deciding on the list so there’s no way to know if they agree and so even if the government somehow did all of them, no guarantee of any kind it would actually end the protest (let alone the associated violence).

They are shouting their issues from the rooftops, writing them on their jackets and holding placards and you think they don't know what they want or where this list came from?

That’s why the celebrated lack of leadership is such an issue.

It is.

. As I said, it’s essentially a political manifesto and there are already democratic means by which those can be offered to the French people.

Yes. They just want to be heard and are appalled at their new government, which didn't listen to any of what they wanted during the elections.

Trying to bring that level of political change in by violence could even be called terrorism.

It could.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

By whom? For what?

Either Muslims or the Illuminati. Possibly both.

 

[Woberts]

Either Muslims or the Illuminati. Possibly both.

My bets are on migrant illuminati Muslims.

 

[Rival]

My bets are on migrant illuminati Muslims.

Are you kidding me? It's Free Mason lizard people. Sake...

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

My bets are on migrant illuminati Muslims.

Yeah, ever since Communists fell out of favour as the goto baddies... I'm sure more than a few people are trying to blame the Jews, too.

 

[HonestJoe]

So?

That’s the whole point of a protest. You have something specific you want to change and you express that publically. That’s how this protest actually started out around the fuel taxes. The problem is that it now seems to have been hijacked and it isn’t yet clear by whom or for what purposes.

Yes, because this is how the working people see things. They are not familiar with the intricacies of government, but they are experiencing problems linked to it and they want them fixed. I doubt anyone is expecting it to be fixed in a week.

I think a lot of the protesters (like political protesters in general) believe they can get things changed in days or weeks. They certainly believe they can get definitive promises that everything they want to happen will be made to happen (even the impossible and contradictory ones). They need to face a bit of hard reality or, as I said, their protest will just die out like countless before them.

Macron and the rest of his government could hold talks with them in a diplomatic fashion and they could go over their demands one by one. They could be voted on by the French Parliament.

Talks with who? Nobody speaks for the protesters so how can anyone reach any diplomatic agreements on their behalf? They have no apparent end game.

I doubt it came out of thin air.

No, it came out of somebodies mind. We just don’t know who or why.

They are shouting their issues from the rooftops, writing them on their jackets and holding placards and you think they don't know what they want or where this list came from?

Yes, a whole mixture of things, not all of which will be represented in this list you linked. This is just lots of small groups and individuals jumping on the bandwagon to push their own personal campaigns.

Yes. They just want to be heard and are appalled at their new government, which didn't listen to any of what they wanted during the elections.

They should have voted for someone else or put up a candidate they can support. At worst, they should now be pushing for a general election and put their own candidate up. That’s how the civilised world works.

Yes It could.

So you think governments should negotiate with terrorists? Shouldn’t the yellow jackets be in a queue behind ISIS then?

 

[Rival]

That’s the whole point of a protest. You have something specific you want to change and you express that publically. That’s how this protest actually started out around the fuel taxes. The problem is that it now seems to have been hijacked and it isn’t yet clear by whom or for what purposes.

Not true. Think of the French Revolution. That started as a mass protest over many things. Generally protests start for one thing and then others gain confidence from watching it, so they join with their problems and so on.

I think a lot of the protesters (like political protesters in general) believe they can get things changed in days or weeks. They certainly believe they can get definitive promises that everything they want to happen will be made to happen (even the impossible and contradictory ones). They need to face a bit of hard reality or, as I said, their protest will just die out like countless before them.

I don't think they do. Of course they believe they can change things or else they wouldn't bother.

Talks with who? Nobody speaks for the protesters so how can anyone reach any diplomatic agreements on their behalf? They have no apparent end game.

Their end game is to have rid of Macron, apparently. With a rating of just 20%, he has almost no support. He had this rating even before he was elected, nevermind afterwards. I'm sure that, if the government said they were willing to negotiate talks, they could pull themselves together and elect someone to talk on their behalf.

No, it came out of somebodies mind. We just don’t know who or why.

It came from the protesters. Whether they actually drew it up is a different story; someone could easily have merely listened to what they were saying and written it.

Yes, a whole mixture of things, not all of which will be represented in this list you linked. This is just lots of small groups and individuals jumping on the bandwagon to push their own personal campaigns.

That's right.

They should have voted for someone else or put up a candidate they can support. At worst, they should now be pushing for a general election and put their own candidate up. That’s how the civilised world works.

They are. They are screaming that they want Macron to stand down. I imagine many of them did not vote for him.

So you think governments should negotiate with terrorists? Shouldn’t the yellow jackets be in a queue behind ISIS then?

When it's the country's own people, you have to.

 

[Stanyon]

fun fact:
When western backed violent rioters were causing problems in the Ukraine, western media outlets reported them as being protestors. When western media outlets first started reporting on violent rioters in France, they were called rioters.

 

[Revoltingest]

Its Its already spread far and wide.

Yellow vests movement - Wikipedia

From the article.....

The movement's leaders chose the yellow vest a symbol because,
since 2008, a law has required all French motorists to have
high-visibility vests in their vehicles when driving.

Really?
Dang.
Those cheese eating surrender monkeys will
submit to anything....except gas taxes & cake.

 

[Stanyon]

My bets are on migrant illuminati Muslims.

Are you kidding me? It's Free Mason lizard people. Sake...

Either Muslims or the Illuminati. Possibly both.

Video from when the Soviet Union was still around:

 

[ChristineM]

From the article.....

Really?
Dang.
Those cheese eating surrender monkeys will
submit to anything....except gas taxes & cake.

Road safety is paramount is it not?

And surrender monkeys is a cartoon putdown based on ignorance. Throughout history france has had one of the most successful militaries and the most successful in europe.

P.s. french pastries and cake are to die for.