Whats the facination with Born Of a Virgin?

[logician]

Why couldn't the Christian god have made things much more convenient, and have Jesus born in this modern day of DNA testing. There would then be no doubt of a virgin birth.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

oh! and my opinion on the virginity issue...
i would say that because of the fall of man (adam and eve) any human being is not able to live life perfectly due to the fact that they are created in sin. Adam and Eve committed the first (sexual) sin, therefore any child born afterwards would be subjugated to that same sexual sin. They could not stop it from happening because that's just anatomy. So if Christ was born in a virgin he would have never commited that sin making him able to perform the atonement.
My thoghts anyways...

Where is it written that their first sin was of sex? How could they even be "sinning" when they were married.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

That's what I'm getting at.
I believe there is someone whom the stories are based off - but who is open for discussion. Personally, a revolutionary teacher/rabbi who has absorbed mystery religion influences.

Yea.....

If he existed then he was just a regular guy......

 

[rojse]

Doesn't mean that's not what they would do.

Fair point, but if we want to claim someone to be born of a virgin, I would want better evidence than the woman's hymen to examine.

 

[iyatiku]

perhaps the virgin birth parable attempts a similar metaphor to athena springing from zeus' head or buddha being born from his mother's side (at the level of the heart chakra). namely, that the godhead is born at, or into a higher/different level of consciousness than those born of the fleshly, animal act. just a thought.

 

[Breathe]

So your thesis is there were no parallel traditions at all to Christianity, before Christianity came along, it all just "sprang" out of the minds of the unknown writers
of the gospels?

That's harder to swallow than horse pills.

Did you even bother to read what I said before you posted this? That's not what I said, at all.

 

[Breathe]

Why couldn't the Christian god have made things much more convenient, and have Jesus born in this modern day of DNA testing. There would then be no doubt of a virgin birth.

Probably, they would say, "free will"?

 

[Wandered Off]

Probably, they would say, "free will"?

Huh? Proof has no negative impact on freedom of will. If anything, it enhances free will by allowing us to make more informed (and consequently better) decisions.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/61358-would-proof-eliminate-free-will.html

 

[Breathe]

Huh? Proof has no negative impact on freedom of will. If anything, it enhances free will by allowing us to make more informed (and consequently better) decisions.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/61358-would-proof-eliminate-free-will.html

True, but tell that to them - I'm not one of them claiming that.

 

[rcscwc]

List of virgin births - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Here you go good sir.

The entry on Hinduism is inaccurate.

Karna was born to Princess, not yet queen, Kunti, while she was unmarried.

Surya was invoked by her out of curiosity, described as girlish curiosity.

Surya grabted that her virginity would be restored after her delivery.

Does not amount to virgin birth.

Later, when other sons of Pandu, three from Kunti, two from Madri, nowhere is it mentioned that both the queens were virgins.

Pandu was no cursed by a childless Brahmin to be without sons. He was cursed by a sage who was copulting with his wife when both had assumed the forms of deers. Killing even copulating animals was prohibited, in our culture still is. Curse was not for killing per se, but doing so during COITUS. The curse was for him to die id had coitus.

Kabir's birth too is not virgin birth.

 

[blackout]

Whats the facination with Born Of a Virgin?

On an esoteric/symbolic level
"Virgin" birth points to a spiritual birth,
or a "non sexual" birth...
as opposed to a physical one.

But modern church leaders insist on presenting religion literally.
All of these symbolisms began as POINTERS to the mystical experience of life.
They were an integral part of mystery religions...
who'se mythologies were intended to help the innitiate
reach personal transcendence.

Many symbolisms also are practically outdated as well,
in that they no longer connect with significance to our "modern" experience of life.

 

[blackout]

perhaps the virgin birth parable attempts a similar metaphor to athena springing from zeus' head or buddha being born from his mother's side (at the level of the heart chakra). namely, that the godhead is born at, or into a higher/different level of consciousness than those born of the fleshly, animal act. just a thought.

Yes, this is what I see also.

The idea that the Christ Consciousness emerges ... is born... on a transcendent level.

I like your references to the chakras. Nice insight.
The christ... the god... is born of the heart... of the mind... intuition... insight...
word and intent... (each signified by differing chakras)

 

[Sententia]

Could we count the mythical Eve in there too?

No mother nor father and was a clone of Adam (Twin Sister)....

It occurred to me further that since Eve was technically the daughter of Adam and God... (Assuming both are male which is not an assumption I would would make except in this once instance for the sake of humor. hee hee) This would mean the bible first wrote of two males giving birth to a daughter.

If eve is technically a clone of adam... (Twin sister as you say) And they had kids... What would that mean?

Met a nurse in the hospital who argued at length with me that males really do have 1 less rib then females. She pulled up the bible on her iPhone for verification.

Genesis 2:21 (New King James Version)
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place.

I attempted to get her to google it but she flat out refused. Fortunately the doctor came at it a different angle. His argument was basically what if they were removing one of my ribs in surgery and years after surgery I had a child. Would that child also be without a rib?

That seemed to calm her down.

 

[Zorro1227]

Throughout history it seems new religions constantly emerge which are usually just minor alterations to either secular traditions, pagan tradition, superstition or just parts of other religions.

One thing that seems to stick in many of these religions even today is the concept of a virgin birth.

Why a virgin? Are virgins more moral? Is a girl who killed her parents but never had sex more moral than a girl who did have sex but lived a moral life? If a girl is a virgin is she precluded from doing evil acts? She has the gun, she tries to pull the trigger but as a virgin she simply can't do it?

Is a virgin birth considered a miracle? Is parthenogenesis considered holy or sacred? From my rudimentary understanding it occurs in nature all the time just not so much in mammals. (Although is has been done and could be done in humans)

Is the claim of being born of a virgin a jesus only story? Many gods and mythical personalities are believed to be born of virgins: Ra, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Hertha and Dionysus. (There are many more...)

Its an interesting story but it could occur naturally and non miraculously and how did the people who wrote jesus, ra or whoever was born of virgin even know? Did they do a DNA test? Did the nurse maid run a quick paternity test and pray to god to manifest so she can verify?

The whole theory seems to be a superstitious interpretation of older myths that was perpetuated because people just didn't know any better. (Anyone catch House btw? hehe)

You should really look up the meaning of the word "virgin" at that time. You might be surprised. Basically the virgin birth story is most likely a big load of BS.

 

[Cobblestones]

The one that mystifies me is the perpetual virginity of the Christian "mother of God" Mary. I don't know why people are so obsessed with Mary's knickers.

 

[logician]

Evidently whoever wrote Mark didn't consider the "virgin" birth worth of even a mention. Of course, it is just a story, as it is a tale of impossible happenings, and has no eyewitness accounts (usual stuff for the NT). Virgin births had much more to do with relating to astrological events than anything else, really, it was not a unusual religious story at all.