What's love got to do with it?

[Password]

Love is foremost grace outstanding. Love is grace and also love is wisdom to understand others and to commit them to your heart.

Do you believe Jesus was so wise in understanding that when he committed sinners unto himself that the ramifications of guilt from their actions toward him was already known to him? I guess what I'm really saying is...Should love be viewed through the lens of predictability?

 

[Sha'irullah]

I think knowledge without love is empty and ultimately can never bring satisfaction.

I have one expectation for knowledge and one from love. The latter is very low.

Knowledge and love should never be put together or else everybody would claim to have the truth

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 1 Corinthians 13:2

Paul sounds a little conceited there. Reminds me of what Thomas Paine said about Paul

he felt the difficulty he was in, and the objections that would be made, which he anticipates by saying, "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he (God) yet find fault? for who hath resisted his will? Nay, but, O man, who art thou, that repliest against God! "This is neither answering the question, nor explaining the case. It is down right quibbling and shuffling off the question, and the proper retort upon him would have been, "Nay, but who art thou, presumptuous Paul, that puttest thyself in God's place!" Paul, however, goes on and says, "Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, why hast thou, made me thus?" Yes, if the thing felt itself hurt, and could speak, it would say it. But as pots and pans have not the faculty of speech, the supposition of such things speaking is putting nonsense in the place of argument, and is too ridiculous even to admit of apology. It shows to what wretched shifts sophistry will resort.

Rather cute of a response if you ask me

 

[LuisDantas]

How much of an influence does love have on your choice of a religion?

Love in the widest sense is the very reason for being of religion, IMO.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I am sorry you have not experienced love from others, especially your mother. It is extremely difficult for children to grow up understanding the meaning of love or to know the love of God if they never experience it from their own parents. Real love is much more than emotional attachment, it is matter of the will. Determining to consider and serve others first with patience, kindness, and respect.

Never bothered me in the slightest bit. I have never been emotional from the very get go so for somebody to not love me does not bother me. I have never been damaged from it nor have I expected anything from others.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

He could have at least sent himself

 

[Amechania]

To me love in the religious sense is not so much an emotional experience as it is the action of putting the needs of others before our own. No guilt need be attatched to it and no underlying fear should motivate it. Love should be freely given and recieved without a second thought as to how much it is appreciated or how it might be reciprocated. The left hand should never know what the right hand is doing.

 

[metis]

How much of an influence does love have on your choice of a religion?

A lot. Matter of fact, I converted to Judaism for this and some other reasons.

Contrary to the opinion of some, Judaism is a peaceful religion that only allows the use of arms in self-defense. Also, Judaism is not judgmental of those in other religions, nor do we feel like somehow we have a lock on God's love.

Because of Jewish Law (halacha), we have conditions of morality that are spelled out that are expected to be followed, and this even includes the proper treatment of animals and the value of trees. Children are highly desirable and there's a strong value put on their education.

But we ain't perfect.

 

[InChrist]

Never bothered me in the slightest bit. I have never been emotional from the very get go so for somebody to not love me does not bother me. I have never been damaged from it nor have I expected anything from others.

The fact that is doesn't bother you I think is extremely revealing that you have missed something very important about what it means to be human. Studies have shown that babies who lack love are at risk of poor brain development and social skills. It also stands to reason that a child who does not experience love will have a hard time understanding and expressing love. But I believe there is always hope.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

He could have at least sent himself

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I believe that Jesus is the eternal Son and the Creator along with His Father, so that means God did come Himself.

 

[Sha'irullah]

The fact that is doesn't bother you I think is extremely revealing that you have missed something very important about what it means to be human. Studies have shown that babies who lack love are at risk of poor brain development and social skills. It also stands to reason that a child who does not experience love will have a hard time understanding and expressing love. But I believe there is always hope.

Very interesting observations. I myself have no interest in such things though still. I have better things to do then bother myself with the expectations of people. Dependency seems to be a weakness now a days.

I believe that Jesus is the eternal Son and the Creator along with His Father, so that means God did come Himself.

Matthew 24:36: "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only."

John 5:30: "By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me."

The illeism makes it hard to tell. Far too much 3rd person speech here to say Jesus is anything but a distinct person

 

[InChrist]

Very interesting observations. I myself have no interest in such things though still. I have better things to do then bother myself with the expectations of people. Dependency seems to be a weakness now a days.

The reality is that infants and children are born dependent on their parents and it is from their parents that they learn or don't learn about love. As I have previously said, I don't believe real love is about getting your own expectations met, rather about choosing to serve others. This is anything but weakness or dependency because this kind of love takes the determination of one's will over self-serving feelings.

Matthew 24:36: "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only."

John 5:30: "By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me."

The illeism makes it hard to tell. Far too much 3rd person speech here to say Jesus is anything but a distinct person

[/quote]

The NT scriptures are clear throughout that the Son and the Father are one in mind and purpose so words such as recorded in John 5;30 are not surprising at all. Jesus did nothing other than the will of the Father and He made this clear to everyone. This an also an example of real love here as Jesus chose to please His Father before Himself. Along with that, while in the human form on this earth Jesus often deliberately limited Himself in identification with humanity and Matthew 24:36 is an example of living within human limitation concerning knowledge of the future. Besides, although Jesus gave some information concerning future events and the coming of Kingdom it was most likely important that the specific day and hour not be revealed at that time to anyone.

 

[Sha'irullah]

The reality is that infants and children are born dependent on their parents and it is from their parents that they learn or don't learn about love. As I have previously said, I don't believe real love is about getting your own expectations met, rather about choosing to serve others. This is anything but weakness or dependency because this kind of love takes the determination of one's will over self-serving feelings.

I was adopted when I was 3 months old because my biological mother was shootin' it up. Servility and love have very little to do with each when you are talking about the definition of love. By this logic a waiter loves you.

The NT scriptures are clear throughout that the Son and the Father are one in mind and purpose so words such as recorded in John 5;30 are not surprising at all. Jesus did nothing other than the will of the Father and He made this clear to everyone. This an also an example of real love here as Jesus chose to please His Father before Himself. Along with that, while in the human form on this earth Jesus often deliberately limited Himself in identification with humanity and Matthew 24:36 is an example of living within human limitation concerning knowledge of the future. Besides, although Jesus gave some information concerning future events and the coming of Kingdom it was most likely important that the specific day and hour not be revealed at that time to anyone.

Nope, not clear int he slightest bit.

Mark 10:18: "Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone."

John 14:28: "The Father is greater than I. "

Matthew 27:46: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

 

[Sabour]

How much of an influence does love have on your choice of a religion?*
I believe religion to be defined from it's latin roots from the terms meaning "careful consideration."
If not love, what would be the most influential aspect(s) for you?

A change in the heart would be my standards.

I don't know how to exactly describe it, but one will feel something inside. Something that would say that's it.

 

[InChrist]

I was adopted when I was 3 months old because my biological mother was shootin' it up. Servility and love have very little to do with each when you are talking about the definition of love. By this logic a waiter loves you.

I'm sorry. Every baby needs and deserves love, but it sounds like you biological mother and from what you have said before your adoptive mother both were too busy gratifying themselves to think about loving anyone. A waiter can serve strangers with a sincere effort to serve the best they can and that is a form of love. But family members have even a greater opportunity to show love and care for each other.

Mark 10:18: "Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone."

I believe this is a rhetorical question. They knew Jesus was good. Jesus was good and because He is good and no one is good, but God, this shows that Jesus is God.

John 14:28: "The Father is greater than I "

Greater does not mean better or different. It can simply mean a greater position. The president of the United States has a greater position than you or me, but we are are equal. He is still human and no more or less human that you. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit each have their roles with the Father as the lead, but all are equal in their nature as God.

Matthew 27:46: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Remember according to the scriptures the Son became flesh purposely to bear the sins of the world on the cross. As fully human, Jesus was experiencing the pain of complete and eternal separation from God on our behalf.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm sorry. Every baby needs and deserves love, but it sounds like you biological mother and from what you have said before your adoptive mother both were too busy gratifying themselves to think about loving anyone. A waiter can serve strangers with a sincere effort to serve the best they can and that is a form of love. But family members have even a greater opportunity to show love and care for each other.

What on earth makes you think anything deserves love? Because it is human? Humans are the only animal preoccupied with war. We as animals seem to be the most selfish and greediest of creatures possible.

How can you define love solely as service yet service can be given without love. Love has to be more than this or is it perhaps that you do not know what love is.

I believe this is a rhetorical question. They knew Jesus was good. Jesus was good and because He is good and no one is good, but God, this shows that Jesus is God.

Quite the opposite.

Greater does not mean better or different. It can simply mean a greater position. The president of the United States has a greater position than you or me, but we are are equal. He is still human and no more or less human that you. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit each have their roles with the Father as the lead, but all are equal in their nature as God.

It is not that Jesus said anyone is better then himself it is the fact he address god as a different person while establishing his existence as separate.

Remember according to the scriptures the Son became flesh purposely to bear the sins of the world on the cross. As fully human, Jesus was experiencing the pain of complete and eternal separation from God on our behalf.

You just said son. How can the son be the father? Greeks have uses father/son stories in their religions long before Christianity and the Sumerians, Babylonians, Canaanites, Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Chinese, Hindus, Romans, Germans, Britians, Africans, Arabs, Persians and Mongols have been used similar and in no culture is the word son confused with father. None have similitude. All are distinct.

 

[roger1440]

How much of an influence does love have on your choice of a religion?*
I believe religion to be defined from it's latin roots from the terms meaning "careful consideration."
If not love, what would be the most influential aspect(s) for you?

The word religion literally means to rejoin or reunite. Interestingly the word yoga means devoted attachment.

 

[InChrist]

What on earth makes you think anything deserves love? Because it is human? Humans are the only animal preoccupied with war. We as animals seem to be the most selfish and greediest of creatures possible.

Actually, I will agree with your point here we really do not deserve love, yet God's word states that we are to love one another and I believe human beings were created to love and care for their children. It is only sin and selfishness which has caused so many to neglect doing so. I think you are generalizing to the extreme because while some people may be preoccupied with war, I highly doubt most humans probably are at all. Most humans just want to live their own day to day lives, but I think you're right about the selfishness and greediness which just demonstrates the reality and prevalence of sin.

How can you define love solely as service yet service can be given without love. Love has to be more than this or is it perhaps that you do not know what love is.

I've not said love is solely service. I said real love serves and cares for others.

It is not that Jesus said anyone is better then himself it is the fact he address god as a different person while establishing his existence as separate.

Of course it sounded as though Jesus was addressing different Person while He was in human flesh, speaking from the perspective of a human, as a human representative and on behalf of humanity.

You just said son. How can the son be the father? Greeks have uses father/son stories in their religions long before Christianity and the Sumerians, Babylonians, Canaanites, Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Chinese, Hindus, Romans, Germans, Britians, Africans, Arabs, Persians and Mongols have been used similar and in no culture is the word son confused with father. None have similitude. All are distinct.

[/quote]

I didn't say the Son can be the Father... the Father is the Father and the Son is the Son, distinct Persons, One God.


You are loved because... God is love

 

[Desert Snake]

I didn't say the Son can be the Father... the Father is the Father and the Son is the Son, distinct Persons, One God.

Jesus is referred to as G-d in the Bible, this isn't metaphor, and
Jesus the man isn't a G-d.

 

[InChrist]

Jesus is referred to as G-d in the Bible, this isn't metaphor, and
Jesus the man isn't a G-d.

I agree Jesus is fully God and fully human.

 

[Desert Snake]

I agree Jesus is fully God and fully human.

I don't think the human Jesus is G-d. That's why He said to not call Him G-d.
However, Jesus is also referred to as G-d, this must be the G-d in Heaven, who is referred to as "The Son".

Also, Jesus is referred to AS G-D, so it is possible Jesus is the Father and the Son.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Actually, I will agree with your point here we really do not deserve love, yet God's word states that we are to love one another and I believe human beings were created to love and care for their children. It is only sin and selfishness which has caused so many to neglect doing so. I think you are generalizing to the extreme because while some people may be preoccupied with war, I highly doubt most humans probably are at all. Most humans just want to live their own day to day lives, but I think you're right about the selfishness and greediness which just demonstrates the reality and prevalence of sin.

ok

I've not said love is solely service. I said real love serves and cares for others

So what is real love them? You just told me what love does not what it is.

Of course it sounded as though Jesus was addressing different Person while He was in human flesh, speaking from the perspective of a human, as a human representative and on behalf of humanity.

So god has a Dissociative Identity Disorder? Jesus is god yet not god?

I didn't say the Son can be the Father... the Father is the Father and the Son is the Son, distinct Persons, One God.


You are loved because... God is love

No love is a chemical reaction involving oxytocin, serotonin, and neural patterns.

 

[InChrist]

I don't think the human Jesus is G-d. That's why He said to not call Him G-d.
However, Jesus is also referred to as G-d, this must be the G-d in Heaven, who is referred to as "The Son".

Also, Jesus is referred to AS G-D, so it is possible Jesus is the Father and the Son.

if that makes sense to you, okay, but it sounds too confusing to me and not what I see in the scriptures. I don't know where He said not to call Him God.