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Featured What's in a name?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by pearl, Apr 13, 2021.

  1. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    In another thread,
    Jews: What do judaism think of jehovas witnesses doctrine?,
    the question was raised as to the 'correct' name of our Creator. We
    name our children, our pets, our boats, even our houses etc. We have
    the naming rights because they 'belong' to us, our property. When naming
    God I find it a bit arrogant, we belong to God, he does not belong to us. Are we not satisfied with 'I am who I am'? I ask this here as I am not allowed to ask on the other thread.
     
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  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    When we can name a thing, we can control a thing.
     
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  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist You are safe

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    It's like referring to your loved one and when someone asks his or her name, they are just "my love one."

    In the US we ideally carry the last name of our father. It's not a arbitrary name but heritage, I guess.

    In Islam, god has many names (linked in another thread) and they all mean something sacred.

    Words have always been important in abrahamic traditions. If scripture has a name why not to whom the scripture speaks of?
     
    #3 Unveiled Artist, Apr 13, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
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  4. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    A name in the Hebrew world reflects the character of a being. "Yahweh" refers to the never-ending existence of God. The name above all names is Jesus. This is the greatest name. This is the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
     
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  5. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I know this OP is about Jewish faith, but since i see you mention the name of Allah, Here is a link to the 99 names of Allah in Islam
    99 Names of Allah (God) - IslamiCity
     
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  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    What's in a name? Why does it need to be correct?

    Seriously?
     
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  7. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Hi Pearl. Good evening. You used the analogy of naming our children, boats, pets etc. Indeed, we have the right to name those things around us. Adam was given this blessing in Genesis where he was given the right to name the animals. However, you say that naming Yahweh is arrogant. Actually the converse is true, because we are not naming Yahweh, Yahweh has chosen to name himself in His Word. In the Inspired Hebrew Scriptures the four letters of the Name appear as yothe, hay, waw, hay in the text. One cannot escape this fact when we read the Hebrew text. The Name appears in the text frequently and each encounter impresses upon us the fact of its importance. It is therefore imperative that we transliterate the Name into English and every other language spoken by men so that all may know the personal Name of the one true Mighty One.

    The term “transliterate” means “to write or spell (words, etc) in the characters of another alphabet that represent the same sounds.” Therefore the word means to carry across the sounds of words so that the same word will be recognised in the languages when spoken from one language to another. The King James translators attempted to do this when they retained a phonetic transliteration of the names of the Prophets – Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. Incidentally, the names of the prophets are usually an attempted transliteration of how their names sounded in the Hebrew. The Bible is a Hebrew – Israelite book, and its integral composition is in the Hebrew language. Whether treating the letters in the Name as vowels or consonants, one still finds the pronunciation Y-A-H-W-E-H to be true.

    The Encyclopedia Judaica says:

    “The true pronunciation of the name YHWH was never lost. Several early Greek writers of the Christian Church testify that the name was pronounced ‘Yahweh” (Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 7, p. 679)

    Furthermore, I’d like to point your attention to a scripture which says in no uncertain terms that saying ‘It only matters what’s in my heart’ isn’t a valid excuse for not using the Name.

    “If we have forgotten the name of our Elohim,
    Or spread forth our hands to a strange elohim;
    21 Will not Elohim search this out?
    For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.”

    (Psalm 44:20-21)

    You say we shouldn’t use the Name of the Almighty, but you have no problem using terms like ‘God’ and ‘Lord’ which have pagan connotations. Yahweh has revealed His Name in His Word. I can go through how the letters are pronounced if you like to prove this. Approximately 7,000 times does the Sacred Name appear in the Hebrew Scriptures. You mentioned I AM THAT I AM from Exodus 3:14, but you fail to see that in the very next verse, verse 15, Yahweh reveals his Name saying: “And Elohim said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Yahweh, the Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.” (Exodus 3:13-15)

    Using the Name is important for our salvation. Knowing the Name is important because not all religions are truth. There is only one true faith. Joel 2:32 says: "And it shall come to pass, that whoever shall call on the name of Yahweh shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as Yahweh has said, and among the remnant those whom Yahweh does call.
     
    #7 Messianic Israelite, Apr 13, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
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  8. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Jesus said he would have a new name.

    Regards Tony
     
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  9. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Scary!
     
  10. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    This is a great way of explaining all of God's Messengers, who one and all become the 'Self of God' amongst us.

    It also shows that all Names become one and Jesus was correct when Jesus said that the Father is greater than I.

    The Father comes with a new name, that name was the 'Glory of God', the Father Baha'u'llah.

    Thus names become a veil, if we do not see that all Names revert back to the One and Unknowable God, the Most great Spirit.

    Regards Tony
     
  11. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    There are numerous names for God found in the Tanakh, but "Jehovah" is not one of them. Instead, "YHWH" is considered God's most Holy Name.
     
  12. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    Even "I am who I am" comes from the Tanach. And the Tanach gives multiple names and titles for God. So I don't quite understand your point.
     
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  13. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Active Member

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    Indeed. And in so doing risk losing all sense of the true nature of that thing.
     
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  14. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    I think this is quite wrong. We do not need "naming rights" in order to name anything.

    Naming things is a means of attaching an identifier and a definition to something, so that we can refer to it in human communication. That's all it is, and it is fundamental to human intelligence and language. We don't own the plant Mars, yet we have a name for it. The same applies to almost anything in nature and indeed to concepts such as love, death or beauty. But we have named them all.

    The same goes for God, who has a variety of names - and a variety of definitions. Trying to argue there is one "correct" name for God strikes me as futile in the extreme.
     
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  15. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I think that being human we should know by now that disgrace can be associated with a name.
     
  16. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Mankind has created names,labels, titles, classes and etc. I guess this is mankind's attempt to order or control things. Many place much more importance on these things than need to be. If you want a name for God, choose anything you want. It makes no difference. It's not what counts.

    Does God use names? You might just be surprised to know that God doesn't use names at all. God is big on what is. Everyone already knows who everyone is. You might not think that this would work out well, however it actually works out better.

    This reminds me of a story. When growing up, when I came home, I would knock on the door. I would hear one of my parents voice through the door ask " who is it?" I would reply: "It's me." They would open the door right away and I would go in. In our connections, aren't who we are much more important than any name or label?? Are names really needed?

    Perhaps, a name or a label is used to file the unknown so it can be referenced later.

    That's what I see. It's very clear!!
     
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  17. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Hi exchemist. Good evening. But He does have one Name and He expects His people to call upon His Name. Isaiah 42:8 says " I am Yahweh, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images." One of the reasons why there is so much idol worship is because people have forgotten the Name of the Most High. It's a real mystery to me how people can sit there and say Yahweh's Name is not important, when the Bible is full of scriptures which clearly reveal that the Name of Yahweh is of utmost importance. I don't know if people aren't reading the Bible or if there is a veil spread over the eyes of people. If we want a personal relationship with Yahweh, we should at least revere and call upon His Name. He has one Name and it means everlasting life. His Name is very important to Him and it holds power.

    Psalm 86:7-9 says:

    "In the day of my trouble I will call upon thee;
    For thou wilt answer me.
    8 There is none like unto thee among the elohim, O Yahweh;
    Neither are there any works like unto thy works.
    9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Yahweh;
    And they shall glorify thy name."

    People wonder why Yahweh doesn't answer their prayers. Yahweh expects people to have a level of sincerity when they come before Him and I can only imagine what He thinks of people who don't even call upon His Name. That's not to say Yahweh might not answer prayer, it's to say that if we want a personal relationship with Him, just as if we want a personal relationship with anyone, we have to call upon His Name. And it's a beautiful, glorious name. The abbreviated form Yah is also glorious and it can be shouted as a praise. Amos 5:8 says: "seek him that maketh the Pleiades and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night; that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth (Yahweh is his name);"
     
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  18. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Not only futile, but extremely entitled.
     
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  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    As @Messianic Israelite has mentioned, it was God who gave his name to Moses in Exodus 3:13-15, which from the Tanakh reads.....

    "13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:

    14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:

    15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:"


    Since the Jews ceased to utter God's name quite some time before Jesus came to the earth, its correct pronunciation has been lost...but the Jews did not have a valid reason for ceasing to use it as the Bible writers freely did some 7,000 times in the Hebrew scriptures. In the Tanakh you can see the tetragrammaton clearly in the Hebrew text but it is missing in the English translation, substituted by the title "Lord" God. Since Yahweh himself never commanded this, what liberty the Jews took in ceasing to "mention" it.....their excuse is not valid in view of this.

    If people struggle with the correct pronunciation in Christendom, favoring the Jewish custom of substitution, then is it right that God instructed them to "mention" his name throughout their generations and then they disobediently cease to do so? That God's sacred name is lost to the world lies squarely at the feet of those to whom that name was entrusted. (Romans 9:17)

    The prophet Micah was inspired to write...
    "5 For all peoples shall go, each one in the name of his god, but we will go in the name of the Lord, our God, forever and ever. הכִּי כָּל־הָ֣עַמִּ֔ים יֵֽלְכ֕וּ אִ֖ישׁ בְּשֵׁ֣ם אֱלֹהָ֑יו וַֽאֲנַ֗חְנוּ נֵלֵ֛ךְ בְּשֵֽׁם־יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ לְעוֹלָ֥ם וָעֶֽד:"

    How important is the name of God!? This name was the identifier of his people.

    There are no "J's" in the Hebrew alphabet, but translation is the meaning of one language into another. If Jesus is God to Christendom, then how can they quibble over "Jehovah" (which is the accepted translation of God's name in English) and not also quibble over the name of "Jesus"?...and all the other "J" names which are almost always names that involved "Yah" or "Jah" (the shortened form of his name in scripture.) Does the creator of language not know his own name in any tongue?

    Psalm 113:1-3....
    "1 Hallelujah! Praise, you servants of the Lord, praise the name of the Lord. אהַֽלְלוּיָ֨הּ | הַֽ֖לְלוּ עַבְדֵ֣י יְהֹוָ֑ה הַֽ֜לְלוּ אֶת־שֵׁ֥ם יְהֹוָֽה:
    2 May the name of the Lord be blessed from now and to eternity. ביְהִ֚י שֵׁ֣ם יְהֹוָ֣ה מְבֹרָ֑ךְ מֵֽ֜עַתָּ֗ה וְעַד־עוֹלָֽם:
    3 From the rising of the sun until its setting, the name of the Lord is praised. גמִמִּזְרַח־שֶׁ֥מֶשׁ עַד־מְבוֹא֑וֹ מְ֜הֻלָּ֗ל שֵׁ֣ם יְהֹוָֽה:"


    Hallelujah means "praise Jah" The name of the Lord has been betrayed by those who lost it...in more ways than one, sadly. Those who think it doesn't matter today are just as faithless as the ones who had it and threw it away.

    Jesus said he came to make his Father's name known, and he gave it to his disciples. (John 17:26) The true disciples of Christ are not afraid to make the name of their God known in all the world, just as he said. The God of Jesus Christ is the same God then, today and always.
     
  20. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There are not numerous names for God at all...there are various titles but only one name.

    I was present at a Catholic church for a funeral some years ago and projected on the wall was the words of a hymn sung by the congregation of the relatives assembled there......I was surprised to see the name "Jehovah" there on the wall.....so even the Catholic church knows the name of God and can sing it in a hymn, but not address God ever by name in any other setting......I wonder why they find his name so difficult to say, especially in view of the "Our Father" which is said repetitiously and meaninglessly by all of them?....."Hallowed be they name" What hypocrisy!

    Could their translation of the Bible be the problem perhaps?

    Psalm 83:18...NRS Catholic Edition...
    "Let them know that you alone,
    whose name is the Lord,
    are the Most High over all the earth."


    Tanakh...
    "Let them know that You-Your name alone is the Lord, Most High over all the earth. יטוְיֵֽדְע֗וּ כִּי־אַתָּ֬ה שִׁמְךָ֣ יְהֹוָ֣ה לְבַדֶּ֑ךָ עֶ֜לְי֗וֹן עַל־כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ:"
    Same problem......different religion. God's name is clearly there in Hebrew. What are the excuses for pretending that his name is not important?
     
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