atheists as victims?? give me a break
Are you unaware of Christianity's sins against atheists? I outlined some of it at
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/what-was-your-original-reason-to-become-a-rf-member.230056/page-4#post-6532934 which summarizes the atheophobic biblical scripture and the consequences to atheists.
How should atheists feel about a religion that does that to them, or causes these kinds of things to be said?:
- "Settle it therefore in your minds, as a maxim never to be effaced or forgotten, that atheism is an inhuman, bloody, ferocious system, equally hostile to every useful restraint and to every virtuous affection; that, leaving nothing above us to excite awe, nor round us to awaken tenderness, it wages war with heaven and with earth: its first object is to dethrone God, its next to destroy man." - Rev. Robert Hall
- "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God."- American President George H. W. Bush
Look at that. They even got an American president that took an oath of office to protect all Americans including atheists. He didn't even consider us citizens. Were you really unaware of all of this, or just indifferent?
Sorry, but this church declared war on atheists a long time ago. Once, it tortured and killed them. By my lifetime, it had gotten better, but atheists were still deemed immoral and therefore unfit to teach, coach, adopt, serve on juries, and are still practically unelectable. And we continue to see the bigotry on these threads. You not only shouldn't expect us to like such a religion, you expect us to actively oppose it. Why should we tolerate Christian bigotry directed at us?
Amanaki worte, "I don't hold believers in higher regard than Atheists, but i do agree that i sometimes find Atheists annoying because of their constant ridiculing of those who have a belief." Earlier, he wrote, "maybe i am more about finding the answers why Atheists can just let Believers have their belief" It's always a criticism of atheists, not theists. He respects them, not us, notwithstanding his efforts to represent otherwise. He want us to leave them be, but never calls for reciprocal treatment.
Likewise with Landon Caelli (see immediately below)
Both of my kids are atheists, and they are way more forgiving and caring than I am. And most of the religious people I know, for that matter.
why is the 2nd oldest daughter, who is a believer, a genuinely good and caring person, when we raised them both the same?
We don't know that you don't simply define Christian as good and atheist as selfish. I have good reason to suspect what you are calling selfish about your daughter since you also suggested that I was selfish to expatriate from America. Sorry, but I thought that I could find a better life for myself and my wife elsewhere, and feel no affinity for America any longer. Did you think that I had an obligation to live that life, support the businesses of people I don't approve of, and pay taxes that might benefit them as well? I'd rather do those things for people that don't hate liberals and atheists.
To tas8831 quoted above:
Is that really saying much though? I mean, I don't know you that well.
Exactly. But you thought that you were saying something when you told us about your judgments of your daughters.
What a long boring post. It's no wonder most people don't respond to your posts.
There is a better way to judge religions than with secualarity, but skepticism can still wreck **** in hell.
And another one who considers us fit for hell just for not believing in gods. You come by that honestly. Your Bible teaches as much to as many people as it can convince to derogate and demean atheists.
Just because you can not see or understand how others can see or feel a deity does not mean they does not exist
Did anybody assert otherwise? Incidentally, those people *do* assert that this god exists. I assume that that doesn't bother you the way that atheists not agreeing does. I never see you comment on any of that, just what you don't like about atheists.
f you know you make fun of ideas, or beliefs, why do you do it?
Why not. Ridicule is a legitimate tool.
- "Religions' entire authority and real-world power are undergirded by their abilities to command reverence and deference and create the illusion that they are sacred, sacrosanct, and immune from fundamental criticism or ridicule." - Dan Fincke
- “The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” - Brian Cox
- "Ridicule is the great equalizer against the angry, harsh judgment coming from the pulpit. It is much kinder, because it doesn't ask you to hurt the target like the angry scapegoating from the church, just laugh at it. We can offer reasoned argument to those that can care about such things, and appeal to the consciences of those that have them. But ridicule is useful with those not amenable to either." - anon
- "I give your religion as much respect as your religion gives me. There's nothing complicated about it, and I have every right to insult a religion that goes out of its way to insult, to judge, and to condemn me as an inadequate human being, which your religion does with self righteous gusto. When it comes to insults your religion started this, not me. If your religion kept its big mouth shut so would I. But given that it doesn't, and given the enormous harm that your religion has done in this world. I'd say that not only do I have a right, but a duty to insult it, as does every rationale thinking person on this planet." – Pat Condell
- “So when I meet somebody who claims to be religious, my first impulse is: “I don’t believe you. I don’t believe you until you tell me do you really believe — for example, if they say they are Catholic — do you really believe that when a priest blesses a wafer it turns into the body of Christ? Are you seriously telling me you believe that? Are you seriously saying that wine turns into blood?” Mock them! Ridicule them! In public! Don’t fall for the convention that we’re all too polite to talk about religion. Religion is not off the table. Religion is not off limits. - Dawkins”
Do you really think it helps to make fun of others?
It makes sense to ridicule bad ideas.
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus." -Thomas Jefferson
None of the examples I provided is ridiculing a person - just ideas.
What atheists might be subject to in heavily Christian populated countries with no laws to protect them. Like how they imprison gay people.
Agreed, which is why I say that I don't really want church-state separation, but subordination of the church to the state. That's not separation. The church has no rights not granted by the state, including freedom of religion. Separate the state from the church, and the latter would ride roughshod over us all.
The separation I really want is from the church, and the only defense against that is a secular state.
