What Makes Us Human?

[JMorris]

can i just ask, is there anyone who does not support the claims that humans are animals?

or is it just me.

probably should of added a poll to this thread. would of made it easier to see how many did or didnt believe humans to also be animals.

 

[BucephalusBB]

can i just ask, is there anyone who does not support the claims that humans are animals?

or is it just me.

Well, in the other thread was a poll. I believe, but please check, that 4 people believed like you do and 20+ the opposite.
This is simply because it is weird that you see a "best" as an attribute to make a new genre.
You don't view the fastest animal as a standalone genre, you don't view the strongest as a standalone genre, but you do view smartest as standalone.. And wow, that happens to be us.. how convienient..

 

[Gharib]

probably should of added a poll to this thread. would of made it easier to see how many did or didnt believe humans to also be animals.

well we can go to the original thread about humans being animals?

 

[Gharib]

Well, in the other thread was a poll. I believe, but please check, that 4 people believed like you do and 20+ the opposite.
This is simply because it is weird that you see a "best" as an attribute to make a new genre.
You don't view the fastest animal as a standalone genre, you don't view the strongest as a standalone genre, but you do view smartest as standalone.. And wow, that happens to be us.. how convienient..

but you see thats the problem, our ability of being smart has made us be the strongest, the fastest, the best, etc.

so how are we not the strongest nor the fastest due to our brain, are or are humans not the masters of all other cretures? Y/N? simple question with a simple answer.

 

[BucephalusBB]

but you see thats the problem, our ability of being smart has made us be the strongest, the fastest, the best, etc.

so how are we not the strongest nor the fastest due to our brain, are or are humans not the masters of all other cretures? Y/N? simple question with a simple answer.

Not true, It gave us the possibillity to lift the most, make the most distance in a certain time, etc.. by using other objects.

If we would put a dog in that car, it would be the dog who is fastest.
In fact, bacteria who live inside us go just as "fast" as we do and they don't even think about that. They use other objects as well...humans..

 

[BucephalusBB]

Btw, that still doesn't take away that you want to name us differently simply because we are the best at something. Best by your own definition even so..

 

[Gharib]

Not true, It gave us the possibillity to lift the most, make the most distance in a certain time, etc.. by using other objects.

If we would put a dog in that car, it would be the dog who is fastest.
In fact, bacteria who live inside us go just as "fast" as we do and they don't even think about that. They use other objects as well...humans..

is this how we are going to debate this?

ok lets put a dog behind the wheel......care to use your imagination on what will happen or would you like me to explain?

of course we are the best by using other objects, thats how we are different. we are the weakest, but yet we are the strongest at the same time due to using other things.

is bacteria even classified as a creature or a living thing and since we are talking about it, is bacteria part of the human kingdom, animal kingdom or the plant (vegetable) kingdom.

why put bacteria in the spot light when it is nothing.

 

[Gharib]

Btw, that still doesn't take away that you want to name us differently simply because we are the best at something. Best by your own definition even so..

sorry i don't understand this. what do you mean i want to name us differently? that we are not animals?

 

[BucephalusBB]

is this how we are going to debate this?

I don't know, you disagree with it?

ok lets put a dog behind the wheel......care to use your imagination on what will happen or would you like me to explain?

He won't turn the key and start the engine if that's what you mean. Then again, he didn't build it, we did. That's because we are smart.

of course we are the best by using other objects, thats how we are different. we are the weakest, but yet we are the strongest at the same time due to using other things.

Indeed, we are smart enough to build things that take over other attributes like strength and speed. We do not disagree here.

is bacteria even classified as a creature or a living thing and since we are talking about it, is bacteria part of the human kingdom, animal kingdom or the plant (vegetable) kingdom.

Well, they are creatures and living..
But indeed they are not animals. They are monera as far as I know.

why put bacteria in the spot light when it is nothing.

I am searching for extreme opposites of what you think to prove my point.

bacteria/virusses or something should have done, but are sadly no animals.
My purpose was to show you that we humans are incapable of killing those things. Not only do we need many of them, but large portions of humanity are also killed by them at a daily basis. Once they invade our lives, we get scared. Very scared as they are killers. Ever read about the "swineflu" in the newspapers?

We are bothered a lot more by them killing us, then they are bothered by us killing them. So.. By my definition here, they are best. Not us..
You will disagree though.

 

[BucephalusBB]

sorry i don't understand this. what do you mean i want to name us differently? that we are not animals?

Kinda..
Look, a human is a human and not a dog. A dog is a dog and not a cat and a cat is a cat and not a human. We are all different species. Including the names.

Species together form groups as well though. Kingdoms. Based upon certain attributes.
Trees give oxygen, animals need oxygen (Humans need oxygen)
Trees don't think, animals do think (Humans do think)
And more that I cannot think of right now

According to you, humans are the only species in the entire everythingness that has it's own name as kingdom.


wikipedialink to kingdoms

Edit, by the way, why do you have such a great problem being in a group with other animals?
I mean, I can put you easilly in a group with apes if I want. We are both in the group "walkers", "thinkers", "creatures with arms". Why have such a problem at "animals"?

 

[bobhikes]

Sorry.... but this is untrue.

Rats can compare and contrast what they do know, what they think they know, and what they know they don't know... this is called metacognition.

Tool using birds are able to compare and contrast what tools are proper for what jobs and if needed what order multiple tools should be used.

Dolphins have demonstrated the ability to innovate on many levels. Including recently learning to adopt tool use for the first time.

wa:do

Because I like to test myself I will try to explain again.

All animals can learn and compare and contrast but they do so physically. There brains record what they learn and they can remember it.

I have yet to read of an animal that can create or control there emotions. I do not know a lot about Dolphins but if they can then they may be on the same evolutionary state as humans.

An ape can learn how to bang in nails on a piece of wood with a hamer but can not learn how to build a box without being shown. They would benifit greatly if they lived in houses yet fail to build one.

Rats learn lots of things by trial and error or touch smell and sight. They do not learn by thinking. Learning and thinking are not the same. There thoughts are just what they learned. There emotions control most of there actions. Hungry find food, not plant a seed to harvest later.

We can manipulate and try things in our mind alone we do not physically have to see it or physically have to do it or hear it. We just mentally work it out and then try it physically. This is because of how our brain works and has its own feedback loop into the emotional system.

I am not aware of any animals that can do this. I did not study all the animals out there though but just using a tool doesn't qualify. An animal can see a stone break a seed and then know to use a stone to break a seed and then train its offspring. A human could then build a seed breaking machine. There is a difference.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Because I like to test myself I will try to explain again.

All animals can learn and compare and contrast but they do so physically. There brains record what they learn and they can remember it.

I have yet to read of an animal that can create or control there emotions. I do not know a lot about Dolphins but if they can then they may be on the same evolutionary state as humans.

An ape can learn how to bang in nails on a piece of wood with a hamer but can not learn how to build a box without being shown. They would benifit greatly if they lived in houses yet fail to build one.

Rats learn lots of things by trial and error or touch smell and sight. They do not learn by thinking. Learning and thinking are not the same. There thoughts are just what they learned. There emotions control most of there actions. Hungry find food, not plant a seed to harvest later.

We can manipulate and try things in our mind alone we do not physically have to see it or physically have to do it or hear it. We just mentally work it out and then try it physically. This is because of how our brain works and has its own feedback loop into the emotional system.

I am not aware of any animals that can do this. I did not study all the animals out there though but just using a tool doesn't qualify. An animal can see a stone break a seed and then know to use a stone to break a seed and then train its offspring. A human could then build a seed breaking machine. There is a difference.

Uhhu, a difference of thousands of years.

 

[Buttons*]

dignity, spirit of tranquility, and spirit of renunciation/devotion

 

[Rough_ER]

An ape can learn how to bang in nails on a piece of wood with a hamer but can not learn how to build a box without being shown. They would benifit greatly if they lived in houses yet fail to build one.

They would not benefit at all, actually. Most apes (chimpanzees, organgutans etc) live in forests where the food is very widespread, so they have to travel around and build their nests close the trees that happen to be fruiting at that time.

Technically, apes can and do build houses. You're sat in one right now aren't you?

 

[painted wolf]

Because I like to test myself I will try to explain again.

All animals can learn and compare and contrast but they do so physically. There brains record what they learn and they can remember it.

Ok.... that's what we do... so I'm not seeing any difference so far.

I have yet to read of an animal that can create or control there emotions. I do not know a lot about Dolphins but if they can then they may be on the same evolutionary state as humans.

So you have never seen a well trained dog then? It's all about learning to control emotions and instincts like fear and aggression.

An ape can learn how to bang in nails on a piece of wood with a hamer but can not learn how to build a box without being shown. They would benifit greatly if they lived in houses yet fail to build one.

No they wouldn't... they build very practical 'houses' on their own and a human style house would be very detrimental to their gathering lifestyle.
They have innovated their technology as they have had to... such as the band that recently developed spears to hunt with.
Just because they don't need as much as we do, does not make them unthoughtful.

Rats learn lots of things by trial and error or touch smell and sight. They do not learn by thinking. Learning and thinking are not the same. There thoughts are just what they learned.

I disagree... learning and thinking are dependent on one another... you can't learn if you don't think. You need to think about the link between action and reaction.

There emotions control most of there actions. Hungry find food, not plant a seed to harvest later.

I would argue that it is the same for all of us...
Rats have metacognition.... they can think about what they know and don't know. That is a very complex bit of mental processing. It is way beyond any simple "emotion controlled action".
Current Biology - Metacognition in the Rat

We can manipulate and try things in our mind alone we do not physically have to see it or physically have to do it or hear it. We just mentally work it out and then try it physically. This is because of how our brain works and has its own feedback loop into the emotional system.

Birds do the same thing.
Rooks don't use tools in the wild... but give them a problem that needs a tool to solve, and they will invent one for the job.
Rooks Quickly Learn Tool-Use: Discovery News

I am not aware of any animals that can do this. I did not study all the animals out there though but just using a tool doesn't qualify.

So tool use is nothing special... in your opinion. The ability to think abstractly about an object and determine a use for that object is not special in any way.

An animal can see a stone break a seed and then know to use a stone to break a seed and then train its offspring.

You realize this is called ... culture.
It's no different than teaching your child to eat with a fork as opposed to chop sticks or their fingers. The fact that your child doesn't invent it's own fork shows it's not quite human?

A human could then build a seed breaking machine. There is a difference.

The hammer and anvil is a seed breaking machine. One that Chimps are quite good at using.
Either that or you are saying that humans were not human until the invention of the mill?
In which case any non-agricultural people are not yet fully human?

I'm confused... on one hand you say that tool use is nothing important... yet you hold up human tool use as our unique trait... because we make more complex tools?

wa:do

 

[Valjean]

but you see thats the problem, our ability of being smart has made us be the strongest, the fastest, the best, etc.

so how are we not the strongest nor the fastest due to our brain, are or are humans not the masters of all other cretures? Y/N? simple question with a simple answer.

You're equating technology with quality, my friend. Our ability to extend our physical abilities with tools and machines is all very impressive, but I don't see how it's made us better.
I could argue that our cleverness is an indication of us being a failed species, at best, and a catastrophic world pandemic at worst.

Our cleverness is destroying God's creation. Is that you'd expect in a wise or high-quality creature?

We constantly war and bicker even with our own kind. We lie, cheat, steal, and murder. We are clearly God's most immoral and out of control creation.This doesn't point to a quality product.

We can't even successfully care for ourselves. The BBC today reports world hunger has reached one billion. We destroy everything -- even ourselves! -- This is the "paragon of animals?"

To judge by our actions, we're clearly God's biggest mistake; a failed experiment; a dangerous plague.
I was being generous when I overlooked our social and psychological shortcomings and classed us with proper, well behaved, moral, ecologically responsible animals.

 

[painted wolf]

Not to mention that it implies non-technological humans are somehow less human, as they simply rely on 'tools' rather than 'machines'.

Oh and I should point out that the growing seeds thing (ie agriculture) is not a human only trait either. Many species of ants (such as leaf cutter ants) practice rather complex farming strategies.

wa:do

 

[cardero]

Except for progressive technology.

Wrong on both counts. If you did a simple image search you would see that animals have come a long way.

Beaver Dam (photo circa 1945)

Beaver Dam (photo circa 1998)

atotalstranger writes: And breast implants.

I have no idea what you are going on about. I googled “beaver with breast implants” and got all kinds of interesting results.

 

[DarkSun]

They would not benefit at all, actually. Most apes (chimpanzees, organgutans etc) live in forests where the food is very widespread, so they have to travel around and build their nests close the trees that happen to be fruiting at that time.

Technically, apes can and do build houses. You're sat in one right now aren't you?

Okay, I can see where you're coming from, but I think you missed his point.

 

[Rough_ER]

Okay, I can see where you're coming from, but I think you missed his point.

Maybe. I was just trying to be a smart arse to be honest. =)