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What is your view of Pacifism?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Amanaki, Aug 25, 2019.

?
  1. Pacifism is good

  2. Pacifism is wrong

  3. I dont know

  4. Pacifists are stupidfor not defending them self

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    These days there is so much discussion about war and who is right or wrong when it comes to what is seen as the correct way of actin toward others. But only a few of us do not want to take part in a war or see it as a solution to a problem.

    So pacifists is a very minority in the world, But what is your view of those who see themselves as a pacifist?

    PS: I will hide under my sofa until this discussion is finished because I think I get some comments toward me since I am a pacifist :p
     
  2. Heyo

    Heyo Member

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    I voted "Pacifism is good" because I think that violence should only ever be the last option.
    Radical pacifism (violence is never an option) is indeed naïve.
    Violence has to be opposed, if need be with violence. You can't have a peaceful society when you let violence users roam free.
     
  3. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I try to keep pacifism in perspective.

    It's a noble and honorable position to take however, it can also be as destructive as somebody pulling a trigger.

    Imagine ( applying Godwin's law here) if pacifism was applied to the Allies in World War II in the face of German aggression.

    What do you think life would be like now ?
    Will there be any Jews or other undesirable people left?

    Pacifism while having its benefits, also has its significant drawbacks for which I see it is a form of impractical extremism.
     
  4. Rival

    Rival Noachide
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    I think pacifism is unworkable and violence will always be part of human behaviour. Wars and battles are inevitable and can paradoxically bring out the best in some people when we have cultural views of honour, loyalty and so on for warriors. If violence is inevitable we might as well accept and try to work with it.
     
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  5. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Pacifism is wrong. It is the product of foolish reasoning minds trying to make an absolute moral rule (killing is always bad) while ignoring their moral intuition (conscience) on the matter.

    When we hear of a cold-blooded murder, it feels wrong. That's the judgment of conscience. That judgment is confirmed by conscience when we feel the urge to see the wrongdoer punished.

    However, when we hear the facts of a killing in a clear case of self-defense, it doesn't feel wrong. Moreover, it would feel unjust to punish the killer.

    These judgments of conscience are aligned with the survival of our species since they weed out the bully-criminals in our midst and lower their contribution to our gene pool.

    If all the good people on the planet were pacifists, the wicked would triumph unopposed and our species would not survive.
     
    #5 joe1776, Aug 25, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  6. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    How can killing be justified just because it was self-defense? one can get out of a situation without killing. I know because i have experienced it my self.
    Would it not be better to educate those who see criminality and/or killing to be ok, to understand that in the long run no criminality is good and killing does not gain anything good.
     
  7. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Pacifism is a commitment. Pacifism arises in several ways, but the extreme opposite to pacifism is having a warrior upper class - that is when your warriors do not become normal citizens, again, and instead are upper class. The longer wars drag on, the stronger is the tendency to develop this warrior upper class. Then you make the warrior to be the thing for children to aspire to. Wars have been known to drag on for decades, and there are many cultures where a state of war is the norm. Pacifism is really the only acceptable future. We should want to prevent wars not cause or sustain them. They aren't the way that we should obtain our ends. We should manage instead with what we have.
     
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  8. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    I did not vote as pacifism is good in some instances and bad in other instances. There are many reasons in life you have to take a stand. It is survival of the fittest. Animals that are not aggressive with life will go extinct. Human pacifist's rely on human social advantages to survive. Left to fend for themselves human pacifist's would have a much harder time with life.
     
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  9. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are right, If the country I stay in does come under attack and it develops a war, I would not count on anyone to defend me or my family. So because I have taken the stand on being pacifist I can not expect others to defend me. And I am ok with that. But would I defend others? to a degree yes, but not with weapons
     
  10. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    ..
     
    #10 Landon Caeli, Aug 25, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  11. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    I better not say what I said... my brain is broke. Due to a high fever and cold sweats.
     
  12. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Please consider World War 2 and explain how you would have stopped the Axis powers: Germany, Italy and Japan, whose leaders were hell-bent on attacking and oppressing weaker nations, without resorting to violence in self-defense.
     
  13. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    WW2 ended in 1945 and i was born in 1977, so i can not answer for something i have not been a part of and know very little about since i was not there.
    I speak only on behalf of my self. so other pacifists may see things different then i do.
     
  14. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    I find pacifists hard to pick a fight with.

    But in all seriousness, there no option in the poll which accurately describes my view. While I do my best to live with the virtue of ahimsa, I will not hesitate to take action to protect one from harm intended by another when one is unable to defend oneself.
     
  15. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Did you watch that series last night on the Smithsonian channel too..? That was good.
     
  16. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    There are two Japanese sayings that capture my feelings on pacifism and violence:

    - the sword that kills is the sword that gives life.
    - divine tactics do not kill.

    I think it's good to strive for a world where violence is never necessary, but we're not there yet. Sometimes, the path of least suffering involves inflicting suffering on the person who would inflict suffering on others.
     
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  17. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    If the 55 Allied nations in WW2 had not been willing to kill in self-defense and to protect others under attack, it's likely that you would be goose-stepping in parade with the swastika banner, arm raised high in a Nazi salute, shouting Sieg Heil! today.
     
  18. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Why would I do that? I am against the nazi ideology and way of thinking So even I was born in that form of regime I would never follow it. Nobody can force me to say or do things I do not stand for myself.
     
  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    A pacifist pacifies. The treaty of WWII was pacifist. It helped to pay for the rebuilding of Germany. This resulted in a new Germany, renewed and very pacifist compared to all of its previous centuries. At the same time the US grew in the other direction becoming less pacifist. A new thing emerged and was named the military industrial complex, which our own general and president warned us against.

    Now to this day we have this entire system which exists for the purpose of researching new weapons, and every year it justifies itself further. Its like an extra organ. From it comes good things such as the internet; but its main purpose is not to produce beneficial inventions. Its main purpose is to maintain military superiority, and that reveals the true basis for it. We have come believe in absolute military superiority of our federal government. Almost every US citizen, myself included, believes that our government must have some serious weapons defending us and not just citizen level weapons but governmental.

    There are weapons (guns) for mere citizens and then there are weapons reserved for the government. Thus we have created a new class of warrior in a country where it was originally believed and hoped and expected that warfare could and should be handled by its citizens.

    Nuclear bombs: Everyone wonders how to get rid of nuclear bombs, because everyone knows that they are just too damned big and toxic; but somehow we can't seem to get rid of them. Only pacifism can do it.
     
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  20. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    True, no one could force you to fall in line with their fascist ideology but if they had gained power, they could make you wish you had. In Germany in those years, pacifists like the Jehovah's Witnesses were imprisoned or killed.
     
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