What is your opinion on internet privacy?

[Sunstone]

It's not so clear-cut when you are in the shoes of someone who is being constantly lied to. You forget what it felt like to trust somebody (assuming you ever did), so you don't have total clarity of perception that you don't trust your partner. For me (a person with more than your average allotment of integrity), I felt like I was in a strange land, adapting to strange rules. What should Alice have said to Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum? I don't relate to people who lie. They are inhabitants of a country with unfamiliar norms. They tell you this or that and maybe you know it ain't so, but what then? They appear so convinced of their own statements and they seem so needful for you to be equally convinced. It's their assurances vs. your suspicions. Either they are lying or you have "trust issues". How can you know whether you might be the problem? Can you call somebody a liar to her face without proof? If not, can you walk away without giving any explanation?

I can't do that. I had to be certain I was in the right before I dealt that kind of a blow to my fiance and I had to state the reason he was being ****canned in clear and unambiguous terms. Snooping was part of that picture but in the end he actually told me about one of his indiscretions. (Snooping wasn't enough - all I found was wistful yearning for some ex-girlfriend. It didn't help me trust him, but I said I would marry him so I intended to do it.)

I think I can see your point of view, Alceste, because I've known situations where confusion, etc, restrict our choices. But unless I was confused, I would divorce anyone I didn't trust. That's just me, though. Other people have other values.

 

[Kathryn]

I think I can see your point of view, Alceste, because I've known situations where confusion, etc, restrict our choices. But unless I was confused, I would divorce anyone I didn't trust. That's just me, though. Other people have other values.

Sunstone - loss of trust often doesn't happen overnight. When you've spent years building and investing in a relationship, you don't usually suddenly wake up one morning and say, "By golly, I suddenly don't trust you - so I'm throwing all of what we've built together away and divorcing your ***!"

When you begin to suspect someone that you've formerly trusted, at first it's hard to believe. You don't WANT to distrust them, you don't WANT to dismantle the life you've built together - you WANT to believe them. You want things to remain trusting and good between you - and it's confusing and sad and distressing to begin to realize that things are changing and your partner is hiding things from you.

So - before you throw in the towel, you may want to investigate - hoping to find that you are WRONG - not necessarily hoping to CATCH your lover in something.

Do you see the difference between this, and simple "snooping" due to insecurities and unfounded issues of jealousy or simply a suspicious nature?

 

[Sunstone]

Sunstone - loss of trust often doesn't happen overnight. When you've spent years building and investing in a relationship, you don't usually suddenly wake up one morning and say, "By golly, I suddenly don't trust you - so I'm throwing all of what we've built together away and divorcing your ***!"

When you begin to suspect someone that you've formerly trusted, at first it's hard to believe. You don't WANT to distrust them, you don't WANT to dismantle the life you've built together - you WANT to believe them. You want things to remain trusting and good between you - and it's confusing and sad and distressing to begin to realize that things are changing and your partner is hiding things from you.

So - before you throw in the towel, you may want to investigate - hoping to find that you are WRONG - not necessarily hoping to CATCH your lover in something.

Do you see the difference between this, and simple "snooping" due to insecurities and unfounded issues of jealousy or simply a suspicious nature?

Kathryn, I would divorce a woman I lacked trust in. It's that simple with me. But I'm saying anyone else need follow me.

 

[Kathryn]

Kathryn, I would divorce a woman I lacked trust in. It's that simple with me. But I'm saying anyone else need follow me.

Say you bought your dream house the year before, you own a prosperous and high profile business together, you have children and dogs and intertwined careers and savings accounts and investments, etc etc, and you begin to think you're seeing signs of deception.

Are you saying that without a shred of proof, based simply on a newly developed feeling, you'd dismantle your entire life, traumatize your children, divvy up the dogs, sell the house, sell the business, divide the stocks and investments, and deliver a significant setback to your own career - because you just suddenly don't trust someone you've been married to for decades?

What if your suspicions were unfounded, or when you gathered facts, you realized that there was a logical explanation that you were not aware of? What if you found out that instead of cheating or lying to you, your spouse was suffering from short term memory loss and simply afraid to admit it? What if she wasn't really hiding money or spending it on someone else - she was simply saving it for a really huge 20th anniversary trip as a surprise to you?

Or - what if YOU are suddenly suffering from a disorder and therefore experiencing a personality change - something which could be medically treated. (Good luck getting the ex whose life you just destroyed to help you out with that one.)

Do you honestly think that a relationship like that should be destroyed simply because you suddenly distrust that person? What sort of proof would you need of behavior which would justify your feelings, if any?

 

[Sunstone]

Say you bought your dream house the year before, you own a prosperous and high profile business together, you have children and dogs and intertwined careers and savings accounts and investments, etc etc, and you begin to think you're seeing signs of deception.

Are you saying that without a shred of proof, based simply on a newly developed feeling, you'd dismantle your entire life, traumatize your children, divvy up the dogs, sell the house, sell the business, divide the stocks and investments, and deliver a significant setback to your own career - because you just suddenly don't trust someone you've been married to for decades?

What if your suspicions were unfounded, or when you gathered facts, you realized that there was a logical explanation that you were not aware of? What if you found out that instead of cheating or lying to you, your spouse was suffering from short term memory loss and simply afraid to admit it? What if she wasn't really hiding money or spending it on someone else - she was simply saving it for a really huge 20th anniversary trip as a surprise to you?

Or - what if YOU are suddenly suffering from a disorder and therefore experiencing a personality change - something which could be medically treated. (Good luck getting the ex whose life you just destroyed to help you out with that one.)

Do you honestly think that a relationship like that should be destroyed simply because you suddenly distrust that person? What sort of proof would you need of behavior which would justify your feelings, if any?

I'm just repeating myself at this point. There's no point in my repeating myself further. We have different values, Kathryn. That's all there is to it.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm just repeating myself at this point. There's no point in my repeating myself further. We have different values, Kathryn. That's all there is to it.

Well, I certainly agree that we have different values, but I also believe there's more to your refusal to answer my questions than simply our difference in value systems.

 

[Sunstone]

...but I also believe there's more to your refusal to answer my questions...

It doesn't surprise me you have a suspicious mind. After all, you admittedly snoop.

 

[Kathryn]

It doesn't surprise me you have a suspicious mind. After all, you admittedly snoop.

It doesn't surprise me that you don't like your activities or motives to be evaluated or questioned, considering your attitude toward unfaithfulness which you've expressed in other threads.

 

[Sunstone]

It doesn't surprise me that you don't like your activities or motives to be evaluated or questioned, considering your attitude toward unfaithfulness which you've expressed in other threads.

That's another way in which our values differ, Kathryn. You seem bent on converting me to yours. But I have no similar desire to meddle in your life.

 

[Kathryn]

That's another way in which our values differ, Kathryn. You seem bent on converting me to yours. But I have no similar desire to meddle in your life.

Sunstone, this is a ridiculous statement - and I can only hope you know it (if not, please seek professional help). You know I've never attempted to convert you - or for that matter anyone else on this forum - to my value system. And the very idea of meddling in your life is abhorant to me, so you can relax.

 

[Sunstone]

abh

Sunstone, this is a ridiculous statement - and I can only hope you know it (if not, please seek professional help). You know I've never attempted to convert you - or for that matter anyone else on this forum - to my value system. And the very idea of meddling in your life is abhorant to me, so you can relax.

It hit home, did it.

 

[Kathryn]

It hit home, did it.

No.

This is a debate forum, so I'm debating. I challenged your assertion that I try to convert you and others to my value system. I think that's a ridiculous statement - and I think you know it. Apparently, though, you're reduced to having to resort to this sort of blather. I have no idea why. Have you been drinking? :thud:

 

[Sunstone]

No.

This is a debate forum, so I'm debating. I challenged your assertion that I try to convert you and others to my value system. I think that's a ridiculous statement - and I think you know it. Apparently, though, you're reduced to having to resort to this sort of blather. I have no idea why. Have you been drinking? :thud:

I was wondering the same about you Kathryn. Your drinking habits, I mean. Your reasoning -- or lack thereof -- seems to indicate an immoderate consumption of the grape.

 

[Kathryn]

I was wondering the same about you Kathryn. Your drinking habits, I mean. Your reasoning -- or lack thereof -- seems to indicate an immoderate consumption of the grape.

Oh, Sunstone, your tactics of diversion are so obvious. Can't you do any better than this? You accused me of trying to convert you and others to my value system. I challenged that accusation, which, in spite of your many odd statements on this forum, seemed weird (not to mention unsubstantiated) even for you.

Obviously you have nothing to back up this accusation, so now you're trying to divert attention away from something foolish that you've posted.

Hey, come to think of it, though it's a ridiculous accusation, I suddenly realize that it fits your pattern of resorting to personal insults when you run out of things to say about the real topic of a thread. MY BAD - how could I have forgotten this habit of yours so quickly?

(puts glass down) Sheeze, I've really got to lay off this stuff. It's affecting my short term memory...

 

[Kathryn]

Sunstone, this one's for you:

 

[Sunstone]

Oh, Sunstone, your tactics of diversion are so obvious. Can't you do any better than this? You accused me of trying to convert you and others to my value system. I challenged that accusation, which, in spite of your many odd statements on this forum, seemed weird (not to mention unsubstantiated) even for you.

Obviously you have nothing to back up this accusation, so now you're trying to divert attention away from something foolish that you've posted.

Hey, come to think of it, though it's a ridiculous accusation, I suddenly realize that it fits your pattern of resorting to personal insults when you run out of things to say about the real topic of a thread. MY BAD - how could I have forgotten this habit of yours so quickly?

(puts glass down) Sheeze, I've really got to lay off this stuff. It's affecting my short term memory...

I've state my position several times, Kathryn. You have been unable to let it go. So now you want...what? That I should get into a debate with you? Because you are princess and you command me to debate? Get a life, Kathryn. You're not someone I consider worth debating. And yes, you can have the last word. I'm finished with you.

Wish you the best with your bottle, though.

 

[Kathryn]

I've state my position several times, Kathryn. You have been unable to let it go. So now you want...what? That I should get into a debate with you? Because you are princess and you command me to debate? Get a life, Kathryn. You're not someone I consider worth debating. And yes, you can have the last word. I'm finished with you.

"Sunstone doesn't think I'm worthy of debating with him? How can I possibly go on from here? What shall I do? How shall I sleep? My life is now rendered meaningless by a person with an ego the size of Canada! I'm ...I'm..NOTHING!"

"He's finished with me...finished with me...and this glass is nearly as empty as my life..."

 

[ChristineES]

-I did not!!
-You did, too!!
-Did not!
-Did, too!!

 

[Kathryn]

Christine, I know you are but what am I?


Same to you but more of it!

INFINITY!

 

[Hypersonic]

Perhaps its not what you intended to say but a matter of perception. I backed out and actually read both of you and Sunstone's response. It is clearly not your intent to convert people to your value system however I do see Sunstone's point. Majority of your debate is using in large paragraphs, your own experiences. I mean that is fine but I guess in this so called debate continuously using your experiences just to counter another point of view just amounts to personal experiences--no right or wrong just simply as you people say a draw.

If I understand you correctly Kathryn monogamous couple should share information with each other and if suspicion is how you say evident, then you have a right to investigate odd behavior that is atypical. If I am wrong please correct me without large paragraph of course.

I believe Sunstone's point was if his privacy is investigated by his spouse without his approval he will divorce. I believe in so many words he explained why. What works for him works for him and what works for you works for you.

Luckily for me my wife respects my privacy. If I set my phone down I don't have to worry about her going through my phone. Or my computer being looked though since I leave it open. Like Sunstone I would have a problem if she did, but unlike Sunstone I wouldn't divorce her over it. I think how people view privacy. There is no single representation for all the people.