What is your Belief? A statistic for RF

[InvestigateTruth]

I agree. Hinduism (and all the Dharmic religions in general) are non revealed. They are more like mathematics. They eternally exist and can be directly grasped by a sufficiently prepared mind.

What you talk about is the "interpretations".
The Hindu Scriptures may be said to contain two kinds of words. Some parts of it are sayings of a Manifestation of God, such as Krishna. This part is not drived from thinking of others, unless you believe, Krishna did not exist, and these words are not His, but are inventions.
Then there are other parts of books, where sages, wrote their explanations and discoveries. But the sayings of sages, are based on their understanding of the words of Krishna, or other Manifestations of God, depending on which Hindu sect they followed.

 

[sayak83]

What you talk about is the "interpretations".
The Hindu Scriptures may be said to contain two kinds of words. Some parts of it are sayings of a Manifestation of God, such as Krishna. This part is not drived from thinking of others, unless you believe, Krishna did not exist, and these words are not His, but are inventions.
Then there are other parts of books, where sages, wrote their explanations and discoveries. But the sayings of sages, are based on their understanding of the words of Krishna, or other Manifestations of God, depending on which Hindu sect they followed.

Once again, whatever Krishna says is not different than what the rishis and sages said before and after him. And that is because these are things that can be directly perceived by a sufficiently advanced yogic practitioner. Krishna himself says this in the Gita.

Hinduism has no revelation. Neither it is an invention. The tenets are DISCOVERIES of eternal principles and realities that exist for all time. Like the discovery of the sciences.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Once again, whatever Krishna says is not different than what the rishis and sages said before and after him.

And that is because these are things that can be directly perceived by a sufficiently advanced yogic practitioner. Krishna himself says this in the Gita.

can you please quote Krishna about what he said?

Hinduism has no revelation. Neither it is an invention. The tenets are DISCOVERIES of eternal principles and realities that exist for all time. Like the discovery of the sciences.

I wasn't debating about revelation with you.

But, when you say they discover the principles, it is the same as revelation defined in Bahai faith. You just use a different term. Like it or not

 

[sayak83]

can you please quote Krishna about what he said?


I wasn't debating about revelation with you.

But, when you say they discover the principles, it is the same as revelation defined in Bahai faith. You just use a different term. Like it or not

Do you think that Euclid's theorems are revelations? What about Newton's laws?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Do you think that Euclid's theorems are revelations? What about Newton's laws?

Yes, in Bahai view, they are.

"Arts and industries have been reborn, there are new discoveries in science, and there are new inventions… all these have likewise been renewed. The laws and procedures of every government have been revised. Renewal is the order of the day.

And all this newness hath its source in the fresh outpourings of wondrous grace and favour from the Lord of the Kingdom, which have renewed the world" - Abdulbaha

There is a Hadith, that is also confirmes by Baha'u'llah:

"Knowledge is twenty-seven letters. All that the Messengers have brought is only two letters, and the people to this day know only these two letters. When our Promised One arises, he will reveal the other twenty-five letters." Quoted in Iqan, Baha'u'llah

 

[sayak83]

Yes, in Bahai view, they are.

"Arts and industries have been reborn, there are new discoveries in science, and there are new inventions… all these have likewise been renewed. The laws and procedures of every government have been revised. Renewal is the order of the day.

And all this newness hath its source in the fresh outpourings of wondrous grace and favour from the Lord of the Kingdom, which have renewed the world" - Abdulbaha

There is a Hadith, that is also confirmes by Baha'u'llah:

"Knowledge is twenty-seven letters. All that the Messengers have brought is only two letters, and the people to this day know only these two letters. When our Promised One arises, he will reveal the other twenty-five letters." Quoted in Iqan, Baha'u'llah

So science, math, arts...everything is revealed according to Bahai view. Obviously this not the way the word revealed is used anywhere outside of Bahai circles. Hence I will stick to how PPL generally understand the word revealed.
And according to how it's normally used, Hinduism is not a revealed religious system, but one that is directly discovered or perceived. Whether you like it or not.

 

[PearlSeeker]

But, when you say they discover the principles, it is the same as revelation defined in Bahai faith.

It's different. In Bahai faith only superhuman Messengers have direct access to content of revelation. And the content is not impersonal eternal truths but a message specific to age.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am an atheist and a believer in non-revealed religion (Hinduism). You did not allow multiple selection, poll not fit for me.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. unless you believe, Krishna did not exist, and these words are not His, ..
Then there are other parts of books, where sages, wrote their explanations and discoveries. But the sayings of sages, are based on their understanding of the words of Krishna, ..

Yeah, Krishna is a myth and Bhagawat Gita was written around the beginning of Christian era.
There were sages before Bhagawat Gita was written (for example, those who wrote older Upanishads). If someone believes that the words of Bhagawat Gita were spoken by Krishna, then that is not supported by current scholarship.

Bhagavad Gita - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sayak83]

can you please quote Krishna about what he said?


I wasn't debating about revelation with you.

But, when you say they discover the principles, it is the same as revelation defined in Bahai faith. You just use a different term. Like it or not

Ok. Here goes.
Gita Chapter 7 verse 11 onwards. Here Krishna clearly says that he (as Isvara or God) is explaining to Arjuna the ultimate goal/ reality which the knowers of Veda are already aware and practice at that time.

That which those who know the Vedas call the imperishable, Which the ascetics, free from passion, enter, Desiring which they follow a life of chastity, That path I shall explain to you briefly.
Closing all the gates of the body, And confining the mind in the heart, Having placed the vital breath in the head, Established in yoga concentration,
Uttering the single-syllabled Brahman "Om"
Meditating on Me,
He who goes forth, renouncing the body,
Goes to the supreme goal .
Approaching Me, those whose souls are great,
Who have gone to the supreme perfection,
Do not incur rebirth,
That impermanent home of misfortune.
..........
The yogin, having known all this, goes beyond
The pure fruit of action which comes from study of the Vedas, Sacrifices, austerities, and gifts,
And goes to the supreme primal state.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It's different. In Bahai faith only superhuman Messengers have direct access to content of revelation. And the content is not impersonal eternal truths but a message specific to age.

Would you say, in Hinduism beliefs, a Manifestation of God, such as Krishna, discovers principles? Does a Supreme God discovers principles?

 

[Dawnofhope]

The distribution of answers so far has a high number of atheists, agnostics and those who identify with non-revealed religions (whatever that means) and not so many Abrahamics. Its a brave new world!

 

[SalixIncendium]

Would you say, in Hinduism beliefs, a Manifestation of God, such as Krishna, discovers principles? Does a Supreme God discovers principles?

What is "God" in "Manifestation of God?"

 

[Aupmanyav]

can you please quote Krishna about what he said?

nāsato vidyate bhāvo, nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ;
ubhayor api dṛṣṭo ’ntas, tv anayos tattva-darśibhiḥ.

Bg. 2.16

vedabase.io

"Of the non-existent, there is no endurance and of the eternal there is no change. Those who are seers of truth have concluded this by study of the nature of both."

Here Krishna (supposedly) or the writer of this verse is referring to earlier seers who have observed and understood the nature of both. He is not saying anything new.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Would you say, in Hinduism beliefs, a Manifestation of God, such as Krishna, discovers principles? Does a Supreme God discovers principles?

Hinduism is a many splendored religion. No one can discover anything new. The law is eternal (Sanatan). Some people believe in 'avataras', others do not. In Advaita (non-dual Hinduism, as I practice it), there are no Gods or Goddesses, no avataras. Just one thing exists in the world (Brahman). All things, living or non-living are constituted by Brahman. And Brahman is not a God. All things are Brahman, but they are not Gods.
Am I a God? Certainly not. But I am Brahman. That is what Hindu seers said: Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman), Ayamatma Brahman (This self is Brahman), Tat twam asi (That is what you are), So aham (I too am that), Sarvam khalvidam Brahma (All this here is Brahman).

 

[InvestigateTruth]

nāsato vidyate bhāvo, nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ;
ubhayor api dṛṣṭo ’ntas, tv anayos tattva-darśibhiḥ.

Bg. 2.16

vedabase.io

"Of the non-existent, there is no endurance and of the eternal there is no change. Those who are seers of truth have concluded this by study of the nature of both."

Here Krishna (supposedly) or the writer of this verse is referring to earlier seers who have observed and understood the nature of both. He is not saying anything new.

Interestingly, Baha'u'llah says something similar to the quote from Krishna;


"This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it ñ verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures." Baha'u'llah

Here Baha'u'llah says, this Faith, is changeless. It existed in the past eternally and will come again and again in the future.
Krishna, seems to ma, saying the same.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Interestingly, Baha'u'llah says something similar to the quote from Krishna;
"This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it ñ verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures." Baha'u'llah

Here Baha'u'llah says, this Faith, is changeless. It existed in the past eternally and will come again and again in the future.
Krishna, seems to me, saying the same.

Bahaollah inserted God in what he said, because if there is no God then his claim of being a messenger turns into dust.
Gita does not insert God in the verse, it did not claim any messenger. It does not resort to faith.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Would you say, in Hinduism beliefs, a Manifestation of God, such as Krishna, discovers principles? Does a Supreme God discovers principles?

I don't know. There are diverse philosophies in Hinduism and "Supreme God" means not the same as in monotheism - see henotheism. As I understand the gods (devas) are also subject to cosmic order and also part of one ultimate reality (Brahman):

This that people say, ‘Worship this god! Worship that god!’ — one god after another — this is his creation indeed! And he himself is all the gods. (BA Upanishad)​

 

[CG Didymus]

What you talk about is the "interpretations".
The Hindu Scriptures may be said to contain two kinds of words. Some parts of it are sayings of a Manifestation of God, such as Krishna. This part is not drived from thinking of others, unless you believe, Krishna did not exist, and these words are not His, but are inventions.
Then there are other parts of books, where sages, wrote their explanations and discoveries. But the sayings of sages, are based on their understanding of the words of Krishna, or other Manifestations of God, depending on which Hindu sect they followed.

It's so interesting that yet again a Baha'i is telling Hindus about their religion. But even in the way Baha'is interpret things we need The God "revealing" a message to a manifestation of God... a special person that can understand God's language.

So, is Vishnu the God and Krishna a manifestation? Or is Krishna a God and revealing his words to Arjuna, who then becomes a manifestation? Or are the Baha'is just making things up?

Yeah, Krishna is a myth and Bhagawat Gita was written around the beginning of Christian era.
There were sages before Bhagawat Gita was written (for example, those who wrote older Upanishads). If someone believes that the words of Bhagawat Gita were spoken by Krishna, then that is not supported by current scholarship.

But did Krishna or Arjuna write anything? Did this encounter happen or is it a story? From the link about the Bhagavad Gita,

​

In the Indian tradition, the Bhagavad Gita, as well as the epic Mahabharata of which it is a part, is attributed to the sage Vyasa,[35] whose full name was Krishna Dvaipayana, also called Veda-Vyasa.[36] Another Hindu legend states that Vyasa narrated it when the lord Ganesha broke one of his tusks and wrote down the Mahabharata along with the Bhagavad Gita.​

​

So, if that's true, then Ganesha revealed it to Vyasa. So, the Baha'is are kind of right. Ganesha, The God, revealed it to Vyasa, the manifestation of God? Then is Krishna just a character in one of the parts of a long poem, the Mahabharata? From this quote from the link, it sounds possible...

The Bhagavad Gita is set in a narrative framework of dialogue between the Pandava prince Arjuna and his charioteer guide Krishna, an avatar of Vishnu. At the start of the Kurukshetra War between the Pandavas and the Kauravas, Arjuna despairs thinking about the violence and death the war will cause in the battle against his kin and becomes emotionally preoccupied with a dilemma.[3] Wondering if he should renounce the war, Arjuna seeks the counsel of Krishna, whose answers and discourse constitute the Bhagavad Gita. Krishna counsels Arjuna to "fulfil his Kshatriya (warrior) duty" for the upholding of dharma.[4] The Krishna–Arjuna dialogue covers a broad range of spiritual topics, touching upon moral and ethical dilemmas, and philosophical issues that go far beyond the war that Arjuna faces.[1][5][6] The setting of the text in a battlefield has been interpreted as an allegory for the struggles of human life.​

There's just so many questions. Luckily, we have Baha'is here to tell us what really is going on.

 

[Starlight]

I chose the last option in that it is the closest, with caret:

"I believe in God, but I do not believe in any ^^ religion." -- ^particular^

As an Omnist, I believe all religions have some truth, but no religion has it completely. I contemplate all and make personal decisions of what to accept for further reflection, and what to respectively leave behind.

I believe the same as you