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What is wrong with Islam?
- Thread starter sovietchild
- Start date
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I really cannot imagine how an idea like this got traction in the first place without horribly abusing women in the process. You would think a god would understand how easily its words could be misconstrued causing a huge amount of grief for women.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
The NT also tells women to shut up, know their place, be submissive to their husbands, and that they will not be in positions of authority of above men, not in the Apostle Paul's church. Wifes are to obey their husband as the their husband obeys god. That puts a huge wide gap in the hierarchy between men and women. The OT is easily the worst of the three, because in it women, at best, are hardly better than property. You can say, I suppose, that at least Islam does recognize a beauty and strength in the feminine, that it's not totally shameful and embarrassing by its very existence (this coming especially from Christians), even if they too repress it like the other two, worse so with a requirement to cover up than just to dress modest and not adorn themselves with jewelry and makeup or fancy hair styles.
They all suck for the female gender.
That depends, and varies by denomination. With pre-destination Calvinist beliefs, for example, everyone is predestined for Heaven or Hell, but the best they do to know is to look for certain signs of favor in their lives (I also think this "bountiful harvest being a sign of being in god's favor" grew into current collecting/hoarding consumer culture that defines success by material acquisitions). Many denominations will fervently remind followers that only God knows, and that it's blasphemy to pretend knowledge of who is and is not going to Heaven or Hell, including themselves, and such arrogance was behind Satan's Rebellion.
The Baptists around here, they don't promote violence, but they promote the hell out of the idea of martyrdom. Those who suffer for god are glorious, and they lie down and accept violence done to them. This can even be just as bad as actively doing violence, because though they say Jesus tells them to obey their government's laws, they tell their children their glorified heroes defied and opposed the government and was punished for it.
And this "Brother Roloff" was under legal investigation because "his instructional manual that never changes" had him abusing and horribly mistreating girls in these "homes," and refusing to let social workers investigate on the grounds of "freedom of religion."
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I am a conservative and mostly agree with the idea of traditional family hierarchy and gender roles. So I don't really care. This is a matter of opinion. Being submissive to one's husband doesn't promote wife beating. Domestic abuse and traditional family roles are two different things entirely.
The whole point of Christianity is salvation. When I talk of Christianity I talk of the Catholic branches; I see Protestants as little better than heretics. Traditional Christianity teaches that in order to go to heaven one has to be a Christian and baptised. This guarantees salvation.
Sucks to be them.
Notanumber
A Free Man
I guess that is the definition of ‘Tough Love’ in the Islamic world.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Many? Perhaps one in every three critics of Islaam, if that many.
Wrong. Make no mistake. We have done our homework and given Islaam its fair chance.
Sara Thinks
Member
Nothing is wrong with Islam. Wrongness, mischief, hostility and corruption is among the people, their mind, action! The Religion Islam cannot be blamed or used to justify any sort of criminal activity done by people who claim to adhere to Islamic principles and morals.
Which parts of the Quran do you ignore (or severely spin), in order to make such claims? For example do you ignore the wife beating verses? How about the "kill all the Jews" verses? If you don't ignore verses like these, then how do you spin them to make them peaceful?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
There is nothing right about a tradition that promotes and condones slavery and killing apostates.
sovietchild
Well-Known Member
Prophet Muhammad has bought slaves (or raised money) to set them free.
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Reggie Miller
Well-Known Member
He also killed many people and encouraged his followers to do the same. They still do so.
sovietchild
Well-Known Member
He was a soldier and in command. He was attacked first.
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Reggie Miller
Well-Known Member
That's okay, you can have him.
"They began it" is a child's excuse.
See liberal Muslims are in a position where they are free to ignore Qur'anic verses that are abhorrent, and do so from a place of intellectual honesty. This comes from seeing the Qur'an as the record by fallible humans of the revelations received by Muhammad. An imperfect record, with other things injected into it. I like liberal Muslims.
Well this a pretty horrifying thing to say. Can you express this view normally in your society? Saying things like this openly would make you a social outcast pretty quickly in the area of the world I live in.
This relates to Ibn Arabi's discourses on the reality of God and the non-reality of the world?
sovietchild
Well-Known Member
I don't think women don't even have to wear hijab as long they cover themselves up.