What is up with vegetarians????

[Booko]

Hmm... I think cattle -- and fish, for that matter -- are as likely to have souls as the great apes, including humans. I just have a horror of eating primate meat; it's an irrational taboo, I'll grant you, considering I don't have the same horror of eating beef or pork. But I tell myself it's better not to eat your nearest kin.

I have the same reaction, MB. I would find it very very difficult to eat something I can teach to speak in ASL. Uh...no, I don't think I could do that.

 

[Booko]

Oh my God! Oh my God! I am sooo sorry Booko....sister!

Really, don't worry about it. People do that all the time online. It takes too much energy to get upset about such little things, eh?

(Yeah I'm using that smilie again). I don't know why I thought you were a guy. Maybe it's because guys are stubborn. Just joking.

Oh, if you think it's only guys that are stubborn, may I introduce you to my mother? haha

Maybe it's the talk about hunting. Geesh, and I haven't even mentioned the motorcycle yet, have I? Well, I kinda do what I want regardless of certain artificial gender lines, as long as it doesn't violate my ideas about modesty.

You're not stubborn.

Actually, I can be terribly stubborn. But hey, we all have something to work on in this life, huh? So that's a spiritual project of mine all these years. It keeps me off the streets.

And before all the fellas come after me, just joking to you too. This is so embarassing. The picture of the little spirit you use as your avatar didn't have a pink bow on its head. I think that threw me off. Okay, I know I'm babbling so I'm going now.

Ooh, I positively *hate* pink! My usual avatar is a chicken with a comb that looks like red horns. You'll see it again after Halloween. I only put the Ghostkerchief up there for Halloween.

Yes, well, I've been known to babble a bit myself. Sometimes I do type too fast for my own good.

 

[lilithu]

Uh, and actually, not everyone has to cook meat before eating it either: sashimi or steak tartare, anyone?

I actually eat very little meat but when I do eat it, I prefer it cooked as little as possible. Sashimi and the occasional bloody rare steak are the way I go. And no, I've never had trouble digesting it.

 

[Jaymes]

For me personally, I just don't understand why it's not wrong for a dog to eat meat but it is wrong for a human.

I wouldn't necessarily call it wrong. It is, however, necessary for a dog to eat meat. They die if they have no meat. People don't. It's for that reason (among others) that I don't eat meat.

 

[lilithu]

How sure are the "we don't want to inflict pain" veges that plants experience no discomfort when being harmed?

It is like saying that animals have no souls because they are not human, you are just treating something with less respect because it is alien to you.

I don't think that's entirely fair, and I say this as a non-vegetarian. It is a fact of life that we must kill other living things in order to live. But if one wishes to make a point of trying to lessen the harm we cause, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to make a distinction between living things with nervous systems and living things without nervous systems. (Just as it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to make a distinction between mammals and non-mammals, or humans and non-humans. We all have our cut-off points.) Just because it is the case that we all cause harm no matter what doesn't mean that all harm is the same. In the end, perhaps we don't know and are deluded by our biases. But that doesn't mean it's invalid to try.

 

[Hema]

The fact still remains that animals feel pain unlike plants. All the people who eat meat would not be able to kill the animals themselves before they eat it. Give a child a rabbit and an apple. The child will play with the rabbit and eat the apple. Bad LDL cholesterol comes ONLY from animal and dairy products. Avocado had good HDL cholesterol which lowers the LDL. Fruits and veges have antioxidants which prevent cancer. Meat causes cancer. Do research darlings. It is not in the human nature to eat meat. Before my boyfriend met me he used to love meat. He stopped eating meat a few years now and if he even sees meat he feels sick. If a vegetarian were to pick up himself and go eat meat he will get sick. The body is not designed for it. But let anyone try a new vegetable and see if they will throw up. This is how God in all his perfection created our bodies. If anyone has an issue with this, please ask God when you meet him/her.

 

[akshar]

Basically meat-eating is wrong wrong wrong:yes: Eating meat is pleasure to a meat eater at present, but suffers a great great great great consequence, maybe not in this life but on the next one.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

The fact still remains that animals feel pain unlike plants. All the people who eat meat would not be able to kill the animals themselves before they eat it.

Some of us can.

But let anyone try a new vegetable and see if they will throw up.

Never met a kid who was desperate not to eat broccolli, have you?

 

[Pardus]

The fact still remains that animals feel pain unlike plants. All the people who eat meat would not be able to kill the animals themselves before they eat it.

I have felt their emotions, so i'm not so sure about that and i've been planing to eventually kill my own meat.

 

[Booko]

The fact still remains that animals feel pain unlike plants. All the people who eat meat would not be able to kill the animals themselves before they eat it. Give a child a rabbit and an apple. The child will play with the rabbit and eat the apple. Bad LDL cholesterol comes ONLY from animal and dairy products.

Consult a good endocrinology text. LDL is created by the body when food is consumed out of balance. You can have a completely cholesterol free diet and still have LDL. Vegetarians do not have an LDL level of 0 on their bloodwork. I should know, I've filed enough of it. They *do* tend to have a better LDL/HDL ratio, though. That is very true.

Cholesterol is necessary to the body, because it is a precursor to vitamin D. In the presence of UV energy (from the sun, typically) one of the bonds in cholesterol is severed, turning it into vitamin D.

I'm not sure where you're getting your research from. It's partially true, in that excessive consumption of animal products *can* create a cholesterol problem. It doesn't necessarily do so, though. You should see my level of practically no LDL and an overall cholesterol of 113. If I could bottle that and sell it, I'd be as rich as Bill Gates.

Elements of the diet are only one factor. Another is whether the diet is balanced in terms of protein/carbs in each meal, genetics (I must have great genes in this area!) and there are other factors such as exposure to toxins that are typically overlooked.

If a vegetarian were to pick up himself and go eat meat he will get sick. The body is not designed for it.

Incorrect, or at least partially. When someone tries to eat meat again after a stint of vegetarian diets, they have problems digesting food because it requires particular enzymes unique to digesting animal protein, and the body stops making them when you're on a vegetarian diet. I know plenty of people who were vegetarians and then added meat back into the diet. There's an initial inability to digest the meat, as the body takes a while to realize it has to start making those enzymes again, but that phase passes for most people within a couple of months. To get over this phase, digestive enzymes can be purchased at health food stores.

But let anyone try a new vegetable and see if they will throw up.

Next time you show up in Atlanta, come meet my business partner then. Feed her a soybean, but you'd better duck honey, because she projectile vomits at the least trace of it.

I don't vomit when I eat corn -- I just get a 3 day migraine and some other unsavory symptoms.

Oh yeah, shall I mention for what must be at least the third time that I don't digest beans except for lentils and chickpeas? I'm allergic to dairy? I don't tolerate too many eggs either? I have to limit soy or I'll be off that too? I can maybe eat about 8 nuts once a week? Too many nightshades don't do well either?

So, precisely where am I supposed to get protein, if I'm not getting some of it from meat?

Oh, whatever the sources are, be sure the carbohydrates are no greater than 15g per meal. Have fun with that. :sarcastic

Again, your general principles are sound, but they do not apply universally, and despite what you say, not everyone can follow this diet at all times in their life.

This is how God in all his perfection created our bodies. If anyone has an issue with this, please ask God when you meet him/her.

Please do not invoke God here. In all of the Abrahamic faiths, God has said meat is ok. I'm sure He had his reasons, but if God had designed us for purely a vegetarian diet, you think he would've said something about it in at least 5 of the world's "major" religions. If God told Hindus they shouldn't be eating meat, that makes a lot of sense...for them. But that's a thread for Comparative Religion.

Or if you have an issue with what I've written, you can consult my (vegetarian) doctor or some biochemistry textbooks.

You know, Hema, I have no problem at all with you advocating the general idea that a vegetarian diet is good for people. Generally speaking, it is.

What I do have a problem with is that you haven't walked a mile in my moccasins.

You're asking me to choose between feeling guilty for what I eat or dying in the next few years. And honestly, I'm getting a little tired of people who mind my plate. I know what I need to eat. Let me do so in peace.

I'm not asking you to do anything with your diet, and if you showed up at my house for dinner some evening, I would not insult you by serving anything at the table that was not vegetarian.

 

[Booko]

Basically meat-eating is wrong wrong wrong:yes: Eating meat is pleasure to a meat eater at present, but suffers a great great great great consequence, maybe not in this life but on the next one.

Fine, get a knife and come over for a visit.

Bloody well kill me now, then, because I'm not interested in the lingering death you'd have for me as I starve away over several years.

And then YOU can explain to my kids why their mother isn't on this earth, just because it satisfied YOUR religious dogma.

 

[Booko]

All the people who eat meat would not be able to kill the animals themselves before they eat it.

Some of us can.

Sheesh, some of us *have*. Some of us would be doing so right now, if county ordinance allowed farm animals. I'd much rather raise my own birds in a decent environment. I can't tell whether they were mistreated or not when I'm reduced to buying things at the grocery store.

Never met a kid who was desperate not to eat broccolli, have you?

Hm, maybe not the best example. Did you know they tagged a gene that determines if broccoli tastes like crap to you or not?

Apparently my kids got my gene. Broccoli is fine. My husband will eat darned near anything, but NOT broccoli. Not even if you smother it with cheese sauce.

The last time I saw him eat broccoli was when George I was President and made his comment that he didn't like broccoli. The next day my husband took some and ate it out of sheer defiance.

 

[lilithu]

This is how God in all his perfection created our bodies. If anyone has an issue with this, please ask God when you meet him/her.

Please do not invoke God here. In all of the Abrahamic faiths, God has said meat is ok. I'm sure He had his reasons, but if God had designed us for purely a vegetarian diet, you think he would've said something about it in at least 5 of the world's "major" religions. If God told Hindus they shouldn't be eating meat, that makes a lot of sense...for them. But that's a thread for Comparative Religion.

What a great idea for a thread!! :run:



http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40225

 

[Jaymes]

Never met a kid who was desperate not to eat broccolli, have you?

I'll never understand how someone can dislike raw broccoli. :cover:

 

[lilithu]

I'll never understand how someone can dislike raw broccoli. :cover:

I like the stems raw but prefer the florets cooked. (not overcooked.)

 

[gnomon]

Basically meat-eating is wrong wrong wrong:yes: Eating meat is pleasure to a meat eater at present, but suffers a great great great great consequence, maybe not in this life but on the next one.

I'm sure the Inuits would disagree with you. Unless you are willing to ask them to abandon there culture in favor of your own religious beliefs, not scientific beliefs, then perhaps you might want to rethink your statements.

And to all people who wish to frame their vegetarianism within a moral framework that most likely you are coming from a cultural point of view where you have access to a wide-ranging food selection which is obtained by taking nothing more than the money from your pocket. Many, if not most, humans have not had this privilege. So spare us the moral high ground.

Eating meat is natural. So is eating fruits and vegetables. No matter the opinion of mythical beings.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I'll never understand how someone can dislike raw broccoli. :cover:

I'm not too keen on raw broccoli...but I'll eat raw cauliflower til it's coming out my ears.

 

[Booko]

I'll never understand how someone can dislike raw broccoli. :cover:

I really prefer mine lightly steamed. I don't care for it raw.

Toss it up with some summer squash, onions, and mushrooms, and any hobbit would be quite happy!

 

[Bishka]

You know what is really good, steamed asparagus smothered in low-fat butter/margarine lightly salt with some spices. Mmmm.

 

[jamaesi]

People who eat fish and poultry yet call themselves vegetarian annoy the crap out of me, (even more so if they get self-righteous about it). A friend of mine, when she decided to go veggie, bought some "how to" book on the subject (can you tell she's a UU?). And she's reading out loud to me how the author describes how if you eat fish then you're a "pesco-vegetarian," and if you eat poultry then you're a pollo-vegetarian." I rolled my eyes and went to the white board and wrote "ovo-lacto-pesco-pollo-bovine-porcine vegetarian." And said, "There, now everyone's a vegetarian."

If you eat the flesh of animals (and yes that includes fish), then you're not a vegetarian. Period.

I only eat fish- hence I call myself a pescetarian. I do eat a mostly vegetarian diet and have fish rarely (when I really should be eating it twice a week, but I am too poo' for that), but I am still pescetarian.