What is the US interest in Ukraine?

[mikkel_the_dane]

True and I will therefore keep saying it but I don't believe I actually hold a lot of power to change anything. That's why I don't worry too much about the financial crisis we seem to be in, if you believe the news. At least I'll be in good company if it all hits the fan.

Well, the thread is about something else than the financial crisis.

 

[Kathryn]

Well, the thread is about something else than the financial crisis.

I know but it's the same principle. I can't change things but I can still speak my mind.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I know but it's the same principle. I can't change things but I can still speak my mind.

Yeah, I do that too. And I doubt we agree about Ukraine.

 

[Kathryn]

Yeah, I do that too. And I doubt we agree about Ukraine.

The big question seems to be, does that even matter? LOL I mean, that's my takeaway from your comments.

 

[Flankerl]

There's a reason why THE Ukraine (aka Ukraine) is not a member of NATO. For example, just a few years ago, their president ran off and hid in WHERE? Oh, in Russia.

10/10 argument

The president which went against Parliament to not sign a treaty with the EU, had his citizens massacred by his loyal police forces, was removed as per the Ukrainian constitution through the democratically elected parliament fled first into eastern Ukraine and from there to Russia.

But hey you can of course just ignore basic recent history.

KYEV is KIEV. As in Chicken Kiev (two syllables).

THE Ukraine

Interesting choice of words.
Any specific reason you disagree with the Ukrainians of how they call their capital and country?

I wish I knew Putin's side of all this, I really do.

So how is it under your rock?
Putin has laid his plans open throughout the past year.
How he wants to undo 1991 and bring back all "separatist regions" back under Moscow's control.

Are you that clueless or is there something else?

Over 30 percent of Ukrainians also speak Russian.

You mean the ones who fled from the east when Russia invaded?
The ones in Kherson, Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia who are being bombed by the Russian Army daily?

I'll tell you a little secret: The Ukrainian president is a Russian speaking Ukrainian.

I am sorry that some Ukrainians don't want to be invaded by Russia, but I am not sure how it's actually the business of the US.

"some Ukrainians".

Ah yeah sure "some Ukrainians" are keeping the Russian Army at bay.

 

[Kathryn]

10/10 argument

The president which went against Parliament to not sign a treaty with the EU, had his citizens massacred by his loyal police forces, was removed as per the Ukrainian constitution through the democratically elected parliament fled first into eastern Ukraine and from there to Russia.

But hey you can of course just ignore basic recent history.




Interesting choice of words.
Any specific reason you disagree with the Ukrainians of how they call their capital and country?


So how is it under your rock?
Putin has laid his plans open throughout the past year.
How he wants to undo 1991 and bring back all "separatist regions" back under Moscow's control.

Are you that clueless or is there something else?


You mean the ones who fled from the east when Russia invaded?
The ones in Kherson, Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia who are being bombed by the Russian Army daily?

I'll tell you a little secret: The Ukrainian president is a Russian speaking Ukrainian.


"some Ukrainians".

Ah yeah sure "some Ukrainians" are keeping the Russian Army at bay.

Whatever you say, dear.

 

[Kathryn]

Interesting choice of words.
Any specific reason you disagree with the Ukrainians of how they call their capital and country?

I do just want to point out that many English speaking people don't call foreign cities or countries the same thing the locals do. For instance, Munich. In Germany.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The big question seems to be, does that even matter? LOL I mean, that's my takeaway from your comments.

Well, we had a election recently in Denmark and I voted also based on how our politicians reacted. Further we also changed our laws so we could take part in the military aspects of the EU.
So yes, it matter what people think. And in some parts of the world, they vote based on that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I do just want to point out that many English speaking people don't call foreign cities or countries the same thing the locals do. For instance, Munich. In Germany.

Yeah, okay. Now historically the first government of the Rus where not in Moscow. Any idea, where it was?

 

[Kathryn]

Yeah, okay. Now historically the first government of the Rus where not in Moscow. Any idea, where it was?

Yes.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes.

Well, we had a election recently in Denmark and I voted also based on how our politicians reacted. Further we also changed our laws so we could take part in the military aspects of the EU.
So yes, it matter what people think. And in some parts of the world, they vote based on that.

Hey, get this - I vote too - in every single election!

 

[Debater Slayer]

Let's not forget that Russia has also been enabling the genocidal junta in Myanmar.

And Assad's crimes in Syria (for example) as well as Ramzan Kadyrov's abuse and murder of opponents and LGBT people.

 

[Father Heathen]

And Assad's crimes in Syria (for example) as well as Ramzan Kadyrov's abuse and murder of opponents and LGBT people.

I'm sure the Putin apologists in this thread will dodge these points just like they have everything else.

 

[Kathryn]

To be clear, I find Putin to be a pretty horrible person - I just know that I'm getting that impression from the media basically.

 

[Father Heathen]

I read a very interesting biography on Peter The Great. For the record, but I digress.

Anyway, from the get go I've said the following:

KYEV is KIEV. As in Chicken Kiev (two syllables).
There's a reason why THE Ukraine (aka Ukraine) is not a member of NATO. For example, just a few years ago, their president ran off and hid in WHERE? Oh, in Russia.
I wish I knew Putin's side of all this, I really do.
Over 30 percent of Ukrainians also speak Russian.
I am sorry that some Ukrainians don't want to be invaded by Russia, but I am not sure how it's actually the business of the US.

So you're cool with unprovoked invasions, land theft, war crimes that include the rape and torture of children, and cultural genocide (which you clearly support in your post)?

Lift your face from the RW propaganda trough. Don't choose your party over your humanity.

 

[Left Coast]

I read a very interesting biography on Peter The Great. For the record, but I digress.

Anyway, from the get go I've said the following:

KYEV is KIEV. As in Chicken Kiev (two syllables).
There's a reason why THE Ukraine (aka Ukraine) is not a member of NATO. For example, just a few years ago, their president ran off and hid in WHERE? Oh, in Russia.
I wish I knew Putin's side of all this, I really do.
Over 30 percent of Ukrainians also speak Russian.
I am sorry that some Ukrainians don't want to be invaded by Russia, but I am not sure how it's actually the business of the US.

It's the business of the US in the sense that Ukraine is a partner of ours and an important buffer against Russian encroachment in Europe. We'd also like for Ukraine (no "the" ahead of it; that's old school verbiage from the days when Ukraine was a Soviet satellite) to join NATO to solidify that relationship and deter further Russian aggression. Ukraine also proactively wants and asks for our military aid.

 

[Stevicus]

So you're cool with unprovoked invasions, land theft, war crimes that include the rape and torture of children, and cultural genocide (which you clearly support in your post)?

Lift your face from the RW propaganda trough. Don't choose your party over your humanity.

Why would you assume it comes from the RW propaganda trough? 50 years ago, it was the LW who were anti-war, while it was the RW who were the warmongers. Has this now been reversed?

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Why would you assume it comes from the RW propaganda trough? 50 years ago, it was the LW who were anti-war, while it was the RW who were the warmongers. Has this now been reversed?

I think that the LW has always been anti-war where they see the U.S. as an invading force in another country. In the case of Ukraine, there are many -- both LW and RW -- who sympathize with Ukraine having been invaded by Russia.

 

[Stevicus]

I think that the LW has always been anti-war where they see the U.S. as an invading force in another country. In the case of Ukraine, there are many -- both LW and RW -- who sympathize with Ukraine having been invaded by Russia.

True, although it can be said that South Vietnam was being invaded by allies of Russia. Many of the same basic arguments, both pro-war and anti-war, can be applied. Although a key difference in the war between Ukraine and Russia is that it seems more akin to a blood feud, like the Hatfields and the McCoys on a larger scale.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why would you assume it comes from the RW propaganda trough? 50 years ago, it was the LW who were anti-war, while it was the RW who were the warmongers. Has this now been reversed?

This disingenuous false dichotomy has already been addressed here. Believing that a nation should defend itself from an unprovoked invasion, war crimes, etc. isn't "warmongering". Why shouldn't people fight for their land and freedom? If Russia invaded Alaska and started raping, torturing, and murdering American civilians, would you suggest we let them annex it for the sake of peace?

Your victim blaming logic is the same used by rape apologists. It's sick.