What is the solution for ILLEGAL immigrants?

[Faminedynasty]

That'll happen right after Iraq "fixes" itself. It might be impossible to stop illegal immigration altogether but that doesn't mean we don't do anything at all.

My point exactly.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What if we just enforced the current laws? Why pass any more laws? Are we really going to enforce them?

 

[Ciscokid]

What if we just enforced the current laws? Why pass any more laws? Are we really going to enforce them?

Well I heard one town in NY tried to and then a federal judge fined the town half a million dollars for investigating "day workers" that were of hispanic origin. This country is going to hell and there are some in high levels of power who are adding fuel to the fire.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Mister T,

Avoiding the question. I know I'm on the right track.

It is a rather silly an unitellectual point in my opinion. What Native Americans and the current deabte about immigration have in common is very little. The whole "we stole their land" canard is meaningless right now.

I (and many others) believe that about a good portion of the U.S. population as well (although I wouldn't use racist. Prejuduce is more accurate). And when I see people constantly smearing cultural propaganda about them, I can see why they might think that. There's nothing anti-American about calling things as you see them.

Pardon my sarcasm, but this is another very astute point. People that oppose illegal immigration (while obviously spitting on the legacy of Native Americans) are also racists (oh, no, I fogot, they are "preudieced). Wow! Terrific argument, you sound just like George W, Bush with that argument.

If that prevents them from coming here, why would they? They would still be living the life in Mexico that they're trying to get away from.

I have a crazy idea; maybe the people in this country should decide who comes into this country (oh yeah, the Native Americans). So Mexicans want to come here? So what? Just because you want to come to our country doesn't mean that you have the right to come to this country (that's my racist or should I say prejudice feelings coming in again).

So did your ancestors. And they're doing for the same reason: A better life. "Land of Oppurtunity" and "Every Man is Equal" are our nation's slogans. Those apply to everybody wanting to come here.

Actually I don't think this is true. We always had limits on how many immigrants we let into our country; we didn't just let an unlimited number of people come here.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy in the notion that we should not allow immigrants to come here because they are not "law abiding" citizens and that they're being disrespectful to our nation, when we allow our own law breaking citizens to retain their citizenship.

I'll refer you to Wandered Off's point about law breaking citizens.

 

[doppelganger]

What if we just enforced the current laws? Why pass any more laws? Are we really going to enforce them?

Other than lacking the personnel, the money, the practical means or the political will to make even a significant dent, that's a great idea.

 

[Pariah]

Other than lacking the personnel, the money, the practical means or the political will to make even a significant dent, that's a great idea.

Which then negates the usefulness of additional laws. We should do nothing and then let life take its course.

 

[doppelganger]

Which then negates the usefulness of additional laws. We should do nothing and then let life take its course.

Pretty much. Without being able to give people the perception that they have more to gain by staying in Mexico, there's little else that can be done about it. That can be done by making it worse for them here, but even as bad as we could reasonably get away with making it for immigrants, it still probably wouldn't make the decision a very hard one for most of the people immigrating.

 

[Ðanisty]

What is the solution? Send them home and tell them to go through the proper channels like everyone else. That's what I would do.

 

[doppelganger]

What is the solution? Send them home and tell them to go through the proper channels like everyone else. That's what I would do.

The send them home part is the problem. There's 12 million of them (and counting), they provide important labor in many industries, they are protected by local businessmen and winked at by local politicians because they provide inexpensive labor, and they just come right back.

 

[Wandered Off]

That can be done by making it worse for them here, but even as bad as we could reasonably get away with making it for immigrants, it still probably wouldn't make the decision a very hard one for most Mexicans.

To "make it bad for immigrants" is not the goal - at least not for the mainstream. What most want is to remove the incentives for immigrants to bypass legal channels. The goal is to make it preferable to immigrate legally rather than illegally.

 

[doppelganger]

To "make it bad for immigrants" is not the goal - at least not for the mainstream. What most want is to remove the incentives for immigrants to bypass legal channels. The goal is to make it preferable to immigrate legally rather than illegally.

Other than changing the law to make it much easier to immigrate legally, the alternative is making illegal immigration less appealing. As I posted early on in this thread, if the problem is "illegal" immigration, the solution is easy. Just make it legal.

 

[Ðanisty]

The send them home part is the problem. There's 12 million of them (and counting), they provide important labor in many industries, they are protected by local businessmen and winked at by local politicians because they provide inexpensive labor, and they just come right back.

But at the same time we have legal citizens who can't get a job....

 

[doppelganger]

But at the same time we have legal citizens who can't get a job....

No doubt. Though the causes of that go way beyond Mexican immigration.

 

[Wandered Off]

As I posted early on in this thread, if the problem is "illegal" immigration, the solution is easy. Just make it legal.

If the problem is failing students, the solution is easy. Just remove grades.

Just as failing students put a strain on society in the long run, immigration outside the system puts a long-term strain on social resources, and it creates a persistent underclass of people ripe for exploitation. Because these immigrants bypassed the system, business gain increased ability to transfer significant costs to society.

 

[doppelganger]

Just as failing students put a strain on society in the long run, immigration outside the system puts a long-term strain on social resources, and it creates a persistent underclass of people ripe for exploitation. Because these immigrants bypassed the system, business gain increased ability to transfer significant costs to society.

False analogy. The point of contention is the practicality of "enforcing the law". My contention: there isn't much other than make illegal immigration unappealing and there's only so much we can do on that front. Your response:

To "make it bad for immigrants" is not the goal - at least not for the mainstream. What most want is to remove the incentives for immigrants to bypass legal channels. The goal is to make it preferable to immigrate legally rather than illegally.

If "incentives" isn't about making it bad for illegal immigrants, then the only other "incentive" to encourage legal immigration is to make legal immigration more appealing. Obviously, that would require making it much easier. The people are going to come here regardless, because the costs of staying greatly outweigh the worst we can do to them, and they know it.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Wrong thread, my bad

 

[Wandered Off]

My contention: there isn't much other than make illegal immigration unappealing and there's only so much we can do on that front.

OK, but when you made that contention before, at least the one to which I responded, you didn't have the "illegal" qualifier. That's why my response was worded as it was. I'm not trying to be nit-picky. It's just that many people think a stand against illegal immigration is the same as a stand against all immigration. I was trying to draw a distinction, as MW was in the thread title.

Obviously, that would require making it much easier. The people are going to come here regardless, because the costs of staying greatly outweigh the worst we can do to them, and they know it.

We agree here. I said in an earlier post that legal entry is too difficult, and that is likely the biggest factor driving an individual's choice to bypass legal channels. I completely agree that we need sensible reform.

If we can bring people "into the system" by which I mean subject to minimum wage laws, working standards, and income taxes, it will benefit immigrants and most of the rest of society as well. Businesses prefer the current system, of course.

 

[Ciscokid]

To "make it bad for immigrants" is not the goal - at least not for the mainstream. What most want is to remove the incentives for immigrants to bypass legal channels. The goal is to make it preferable to immigrate legally rather than illegally.

Bank of America doesn't help with this when they give credit cards to people that are illegal and don't even have social security numbers. I hope BoA tanks.

 

[Ciscokid]

But at the same time we have legal citizens who can't get a job....

I've never had a problem no matter where I've lived. I know of one guy who honestly has a hard time getting a job and he's a meth addict.

 

[Ciscokid]

Other than changing the law to make it much easier to immigrate legally, the alternative is making illegal immigration less appealing. As I posted early on in this thread, if the problem is "illegal" immigration, the solution is easy. Just make it legal.

Sure open our borders to anyone who wants to come in. Let's do the same thing with our networks, lets get rid of our firewalls and let anyone connect to whatever they want, I'm sure they won't cause any trouble right?