What is the solution for ILLEGAL immigrants?

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Mister T,

But should anything be done to stop illegal immigration? I mean, the actual process of people coming into our country illegally.

 

[MaddLlama]

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
—Emma Lazarus, 1883 av JC

 

[Mister_T]

Hi Mister T,

But should anything be done to stop illegal immigration? I mean, the actual process of people coming into our country illegally.

I don't think immigration should really be illegal in the first place.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Mister T,

Immigration isn't illegal, there are ways people can come here legally. But as it stands now, there are millions of people coming into our country in defiance of our laws.

Your solution is what now?

 

[Mister_T]

Hi Mister T,

Immigration isn't illegal, there are ways people can come here legally. But as it stands now, there are millions of people coming into our country in defiance of our laws.

Your solution is what now?

Is there something you'd like to get at? Why not get to your point and stop dancing with me.

I made it quite clear what my solution is and my stance. Make it easier to obtain citizenship.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Mister T,

Because I honestly do not know what that means. We have people breaking our laws by coming into our country illegally and you say " make it easier to obtain citizenship." What does that entail? Does that include anything to stop people from coming here illegally? Does it mean that those who broke the law are rewarded with citizenship? I am looking for a little more specificity.

 

[Mister_T]

Hi Mister T,

Because I honestly do not know what that means. We have people breaking our laws by coming into our country illegally and you say " make it easier to obtain citizenship." What does that entail? Does that include anything to stop people from coming here illegally? Does it mean that those who broke the law are rewarded with citizenship? I am looking for a little more specificity.

It means having laws that are not as strict. Less restrictions getting in here = less illegal immigrants or more legal immigrants.

 

[doppelganger]

It means having laws that are not as strict. Less restrictions getting in here = less illegal immigrants or more legal immigrants.

Bingo. When is an illegal immigrant not an illegal immigrant? When he or she is not an illegal immigrant.:yes:

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Mister T,

So the people that are simply running across the border, is that what you are taling about? That shouldn't be illegal.

Do you take into account the effects of massive immigration? How that can change a nation, especially coming from a country that doesn't particular care for our country.

 

[doppelganger]

How that can change a nation, especially coming from a country that doesn't particular care for our country.

"Countries" do not "care" or "not care."

 

[Mister_T]

So the people that are simply running across the border, is that what you are taling about?

Yes sir.

Do you take into account the effects of massive immigration?

I think I've shown in my previous posts, that I have.

especially coming from a country that doesn't particular care for our country.

Anybody who wants a chance at freedom and departing from an oppressive government to make a life for themselves, has every right to be here. That is the foundation of our country.

And that right should not be as difficult to obtain as it currently is.

 

[Mister_T]

Bingo. When is an illegal immigrant not an illegal immigrant? When he or she is not an illegal immigrant.:yes:

Why thank you Mr. Dopp.

After all, "it's not brain surgery or rocket science."

 

[doppelganger]

And this societal effects thing raises another interesting question. Why be so afraid of the arrival of "foreign" people, when your national economy is under a massive barrage of "foreign" goods, creating a massive trade deficit, draining domestic investment capital, and ruining the tax base? Or the transfer of factories and higher paying jobs by American companies to lesser developed countries to take advantage of cheaper labor and less restrictive regulations on labor and environmental degradation?

It seems to me that if you took the economic effects of immigration seriously, it would also make sense to be a protectionist on trade issues.

All the pro-protectionism "conservatives" please raise your hands . . . :rainbow1:

 

[TashaN]

but green cards aren't illegal so im sorry i don't get your point.

I mean, all over the world your country is trying to attract people to go overthere in so many newspaper, that's why everybody think they will find good money once they reach there. Poor them, life is tough everywhere, and they think it will be different in the US.

 

[doppelganger]

Eisenhower did it, it can be done again.

So you'd like to bring back "Operation Wetback"? That was tiny compared to what you're proposing - about one million immigrants, unentrenched and all basically in one state, Texas, at a time when the local governments were still dominated by the Good Ole Boys (read: white guys), when there wasn't obscene amounts of trade like there is now (including the illicit drug trade, but also all the maquilladores that all the free traders so love). That program included the regular deportation of children born on U.S. soil (read: they sloppily deported American citizens) and involved busing immigrants deep into Mexico before letting them go. Frankly, suggesting we could do it because "Eisenhower did it," is irrational.

Good luck with that though.

 

[doppelganger]

I forgot to add, Swing's basic method used in "Operation Wetback," roving bands of INS officials storming through south Texas stopping anybody who looked "Mexican" and putting them on a bus if they couldn't prove they were here legally, was held to be unconstitutional in 1975.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/422/873/case.html

 

[Mister_T]

:cover:
Honestly all this is, is EXTREMELY poor linkless, baseless cherrypicking rhetoric.

Your'e going to have to make up your mind about whether you want to discuss LEGAL immigration or ILLEGAL immigration.

This particular thread is stricly about the latter.

BTW, Not attatching a specific link to each of my arguments with someone else's rhetoric (like yourself) doesn't make my points any less valid.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Why not annex Mexico and every where as far as the panama canal.Turn them into American states....Job Done.

 

[standing_alone]

And this societal effects thing raises another interesting question. Why be so afraid of the arrival of "foreign" people, when your national economy is under a massive barrage of "foreign" goods, creating a massive trade deficit, draining domestic investment capital, and ruining the tax base? Or the transfer of factories and higher paying jobs by American companies to lesser developed countries to take advantage of cheaper labor and less restrictive regulations on labor and environmental degradation?

Yeah, our trade policy is all fine and dandy until the effects of it cause those it exploits to come here to find a better situation for themselves. Then we demonize those people and ignore the larger issue. Perhaps those up in arms about people with darker complexions than themselves coming into the country should take a look at such trade policy as NAFTA.

 

[Joe_Stocks]

Hi Mister T,

I guess my concern here is that you seem to advocating an open borders policy. People can freely run across our borders and freely run back and all is good (after all, we are the land of the free, right?).

My question is a question of basic governance; if you have people coming into your country that really have no interest in becoming part of the country then what are we to make of having elected representatives? How does a representative serve his fellow citizens when those citizens have little to respect for the rule of law? And if we keep on doing nothing; how does that affect the House of Representatives where we are required to have a census to determine representation (do we count illegals or not)?