• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What is the solution for ILLEGAL immigrants?

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
During the 1990s, an average of more than 1.3 million immigrants — legal and illegal — settled in the United States each year. Between January 2000 and March 2002, 3.3 million additional immigrants have arrived. In less than 50 years, the U.S. Census Bureau projects that immigration will cause the population of the United States to increase from its present 288 million to more than 400 million.
from the Center for Immigration Studies

The obvious solution to any illegal or criminal act: enforce the law, stupid.

What is your primary reason for not wanting amnesty?
There are too many reasons to address in depth, here's a few.

CRIME: Several studies have indicated at least one in twelve illegal aliens has a criminal background. Just ask, if I lived in Mexico and I was wanted for murder or rape or drug trafficking, where would I run? Duh. Read about how illegals have overrun L.A. for example here

SOVEREIGNTY: Amnesty mocks the entire concept of the law. We are a sovereign nation of laws not lawlessness. This whole problem indicates serious hypocrisy and corruption within the federal government:

Since when is it OK for the federal government to ignore and refuse to enforce the law? Since never, especially laws intended to secure and defend our borders from invasion, especially after the massive attacks against innocent citizens within our borders on 9/11. Every single aircraft was grounded that day within hours, remember?

Many Americans who understand history waited that day to hear something like:
"all U.S. borders have been closed until further notice. The INS will work hand in hand with local and state agencies and the national guard to identify and locate every person here illegally beginning today. Any person within our borders illegally, all undocumented workers, those with expired green cards or visas must present themselves to a local INS office or face immediate deportation and possible federal charges." Just that announcement alone would induce many illegals to leave on their own.

So why didn't any of this happen? Why send troops off to some godforsaken h3llhole when we aren't even secure within our own borders? Why has the border patrol been systematically hamstrung and weakened to the point of ineffectuality? Where there's no will, there's no way.

We have laws in place, they have been ignored and spit on for years. This is not some new problem. It has been the responsibility of the federal government to maintain secure borders and handle legal immigration since its inception. It's not rocket science. We are not so poor or stupid that our only option is to shrug our shoulders and say, oh well, it's just too hard to secure the borders, too late now, why even try. Right.

Whether we believe in amnesty or not I hope people see that this is a nightmare created by our government. One must question whether it was by design, and if so, why.

Too many people are not asking the right questions, such as when is it okay for a bureaucracy or Administration to actively subvert the law by replacing it with a policy which is in direct conflict with the law?

FAIRNESS: Amnesty is immoral because it is grossly unfair to those honestly seeking legal immigration, including those seeking political asylum.

ACCOUNTABILITY: Amnesty is a bogus, purely political solution which merely allows the federal government to continue avoiding its responsibility to provide national security for its citizens by enforcing the laws in good faith. In my opinion the citizens of this country should be able to sue at least the last 3 presidents and the federal government for gross dereliction of duty.

HEALTH: Amnesty is stupid because it ignores the huge public health and security risk represented by millions and millions of unknown, undocumented aliens who have never been tested for TB, leprosy, hepatitis or anything else, here are a few examples:

One of the imports to this country is chagas disease. It is caused by a parasite known as trypanosome. It is a blood-borne disease and is spread by triatomine insects. The parasite burrows into human tissue (usually in the face), where it then begins to multiply. (Just try reading the whole prognosis, it gets much worse and will make you sick). The usual outcome is death via heart failure. In addition to being spread by insects, it can also be contracted through blood transfusions.
After cases of chagas were reportedly discovered to have been spread by transfusions in Canada, that nation began testing all blood donations for the disease. Due to immigration, approximately 500,000 people in the United States are believed to be infected. What is being done about it? Nothing. Donated blood isn't tested for this in the U.S.

For 40 years, the number of recorded cases of leprosy within the United States totaled 900. Today, we know of more than 7,000 current cases of leprosy in the U.S.
Dr. John Levis of New York's Bellevue Hospital's Hansen Disease Clinic said of America's documented cases of leprosy: 'There are probably many, many more and they are spreading."

Most of those in the U.S. who are suffering from leprosy are from Mexico, India, Brazil, and the Caribbean. However, there are a few documented cases in which the person became infected with leprosy inside the U.S. The majority of the cases have been discovered in this nation's northeastern region.

Chagas and leprosy are the tip of the iceburg. I for one am not willing to risk exposing my grandchildren and future generations to this crap, but our politicians don't seem to mind.

SECURITY: Amnesty is dangerous and reckless because it ignores the huge public security risk represented by millions and millions of unknown, undocumented aliens who have never had their backgrounds or political affiliations investigated or criminal records checked. How many are enemies of the state? potential terrorists? serial killers? If even 1% represented a risk, that would be at least 100,000 threats walking around our neighborhoods under the radar.

ECONOMY: Economically illegal alien families cost over $2,700 per year, NET - and this is only the FEDERAL government's burden. The cost to local governments is significant and would include the huge burden on local school districts, state medical facilities, local and state law enforcement. And no one really knows how many would be eligible to start getting social security and medicare benefits immediately if the current legislation passes -- by providing minimal (laughable) "proof" of hours worked. We may be in a world of hurt before the ink is even dried.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What is the solution for ILLEGAL immigrants?

Stop advertising green cards all over the world. :D
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
CRIME: Several studies have indicated at least one in twelve illegal aliens has a criminal background. Just ask, if I lived in Mexico and I was wanted for murder or rape or drug trafficking, where would I run? Duh. Read about how illegals have overrun L.A. for example here
I'd like to see one of those studies to see how "accurate" they are. Especially after reading that statement about how L.A. is being "overrun" with illegals. Being a resident of L.A. I can't begin to tell you how laughable and fallicious that is.

Amnesty mocks the entire concept of the law. We are a sovereign nation of laws not lawlessness. This whole problem indicates serious hypocrisy and corruption within the federal government:
There are examples that are a lot worse of our government making a mockery out of law. I don't see amnesty as "breaking the law." Rather I see it as speeding up what is usually a long and painful process to obtain citizenship.


Many Americans who understand history waited that day to hear something like:
"all U.S. borders have been closed until further notice. The INS will work hand in hand with local and state agencies and the national guard to identify and locate every person here illegally beginning today. Any person within our borders illegally, all undocumented workers, those with expired green cards or visas must present themselves to a local INS office or face immediate deportation and possible federal charges." Just that announcement alone would induce many illegals to leave on their own.
That is not something I, nor many Americans were waiting to hear. And I hope I never do. That defeats the purpose of our nation.

So why didn't any of this happen? Why send troops off to some godforsaken h3llhole when we aren't even secure within our own borders?
Probably because this war isn't about national security.

Whether we believe in amnesty or not I hope people see that this is a nightmare created by our government
A nightmare to whom? To people afraid of a change in culture? How is this a nightmare?

FAIRNESS: Amnesty is immoral because it is grossly unfair to those honestly seeking legal immigration, including those seeking political asylum.
Immoral? Hardly. You want to talk about morality? How about the way we "inheirited" this country? The number of Native Americans killed by us "moral"folk is more than the number of holocaust victims.

You want to talk about fairness? Our ancestors were all immigrants to this country. And compared to the requirements to become a citizen nowdays, it was very easy for our ancestors to come here and become citizens up until recently. I'd hardly call that fair.

Amnesty is stupid because it ignores the huge public health and security risk represented by millions and millions of unknown, undocumented aliens who have never been tested for TB, leprosy, hepatitis or anything else, here are a few example
Yes because we have had huge, devestating outbreaks of those diseses mentioned as long as there has been an immigration "problem." Before we start concerning ourselves with foreign health threats that do not exist, perhaps we should concern ourselve with home grown health threats that do exist: Such as the number one killer heart disease and obesity. Things that are produced by ourselves for consumption. Stupid huh? :rolleyes:

SECURITY: Amnesty is dangerous and reckless because it ignores the huge public security risk represented by millions and millions of unknown, undocumented aliens who have never had their backgrounds or political affiliations investigated or criminal records checked. How many are enemies of the state? potential terrorists? serial killers? If even 1% represented a risk, that would be at least 100,000 threats walking around our neighborhoods under the radar.

How many of our legal residents are enemies to the state and potential terroists? Timothy McVey, the shoe bomber, the uni-bomber.....Take your pick.

ECONOMY: Economically illegal alien families cost over $2,700 per year, NET - and this is only the FEDERAL government's burden. The cost to local governments is significant and would include the huge burden on local school districts, state medical facilities, local and state law enforcement. And no one really knows how many would be eligible to start getting social security and medicare benefits immediately if the current legislation passes -- by providing minimal (laughable) "proof" of hours worked. We may be in a world of hurt before the ink is even dried.
Granting amnesty would give all of our illegal friends social security numbers and thus forcing them to pay taxes. All of those groups that would have "problems" are functioning just fine with all these immigrants here illegally. And you want to talk about social security and medicare benefits? A vast majority of our citizens are not getting health care now and our social security is dwindelling; These are NOT the cause of immigrants. So I would stop using them as a scapegoat.


Honestly all this is, is EXTREMELY poor propaganda.
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
I'd like to see one of those studies to see how "accurate" they are. Especially after reading that statement about how L.A. is being "overrun" with illegals. Being a resident of L.A. I can't begin to tell you how laughable and fallicious that is.

There are examples that are a lot worse of our government making a mockery out of law. I don't see amnesty as "breaking the law." Rather I see it as speeding up what is usually a long and painful process to obtain citizenship.

That is not something I, nor many Americans were waiting to hear. And I hope I never do. That defeats the purpose of our nation.

Probably because this war isn't about national security.

A nightmare to whom? To people afraid of a change in culture? How is this a nightmare?

Immoral? Hardly. You want to talk about morality? How about the way we "inheirited" this country? More Native Americas were killed by us "moral" folk than holocaust victims.

You want to talk about fairness? Our ancestors were all immigrants to this country. And compared to the requirements to become a citizen nowdays, it was very easy for our ancestors to come here and become citizens up until recently. I'd hardly call that fair.

Yes because we have had huge, devestating outbreaks of those diseses mentioned as long as there has been an immigration "problem." Before we start concerning ourselves with foreign health threats that do not exist, perhaps we should concern ourselve with home grown health threats that do exist: Such as the number one killer heart disease and obesity. Things that are produced by ourselves for consumption. Stupid huh? :rolleyes:

How many of our legal residents are enemies to the state and potential terroists? Timothy McVey, the shoe bomber. Take your pick.

Granting amnesty would give all of our illegal friends social security numbers and thus forcing them to pay taxes. All of those groups that would have "problems" are functioning just fine with all these immigrants here illegally. And you want to talk about social security and medicare benefits? A vast majority of our citizens are not getting health care now and our socila security is dewindelling; These are NOT the cause of immigrants. So I would stop using them as a scapegoat.


Honestly all this is, is EXTREMELY poor propaganda.
:cover:
Honestly all this is, is EXTREMELY poor linkless, baseless cherrypicking rhetoric.

Your'e going to have to make up your mind about whether you want to discuss LEGAL immigration or ILLEGAL immigration.

This particular thread is stricly about the latter.
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
as to L.A.:

Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

the original link is in my first post.
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Welcome legal immigrants with open arms and enforce the law :slap: .

Change the law. Oila! No longer "illegal". :D

Short of that, who do you anticipate is going to "enforce the law" to keep 12 million and counting illegal immigrants out of the U.S.? Do you have any experience in anything related to law enforcement?
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Why are there so many "illegal" immigrants in the U.S.?

What are the proximate causes of "illegal" immigration? Make a list.
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
doppelgänger;843258 said:
Change the law. Oila! No longer "illegal". :D

Short of that, who do you anticipate is going to "enforce the law" to keep 12 million and counting illegal immigrants out of the U.S.? Do you have any experience in anything related to law enforcement?


we seem to have no problem policing the entire world, but waaaaa, waaaaa, having a secure border is just toooo haaaard! finding and deporting people who don't belong here? we can't do it! it's impossible! what a load of whiney BS. most of them would leave on their own after a few raids, or at least try to get a green card. Eisenhower did it, it can be done again.

All we need is the will to enforce rather than policy that subverts current immigration laws and hamstrings the border patrol. it's not brain surgery or rocket science.
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
:cover:
Honestly all this is, is EXTREMELY poor linkless, baseless cherrypicking rhetoric.

Your'e going to have to make up your mind about whether you want to discuss LEGAL immigration or ILLEGAL immigration.

This particular thread is stricly about the latter.
So in other words you can't sucessfully rebutall my post at all and instead choose to produce more Mexican/Latino bashing material? Got it.


Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

Yes, because all illegal immigrants belong to a street gang. Let's sterotype them and throw them all out. :rolleyes:

Shall I start spouting statistics about all of the crimes us "legal" citzens commit at home as well?
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense

SOVEREIGNTY: Amnesty mocks the entire concept of the law. We are a sovereign nation of laws not lawlessness. This whole problem indicates serious hypocrisy and corruption within the federal government:

Since when is it OK for the federal government to ignore and refuse to enforce the law? Since never, especially laws intended to secure and defend our borders from invasion, especially after the massive attacks against innocent citizens within our borders on 9/11. Every single aircraft was grounded that day within hours, remember?

Many Americans who understand history waited that day to hear something like:
"all U.S. borders have been closed until further notice. The INS will work hand in hand with local and state agencies and the national guard to identify and locate every person here illegally beginning today. Any person within our borders illegally, all undocumented workers, those with expired green cards or visas must present themselves to a local INS office or face immediate deportation and possible federal charges." Just that announcement alone would induce many illegals to leave on their own.

So why didn't any of this happen? Why send troops off to some godforsaken h3llhole when we aren't even secure within our own borders? Why has the border patrol been systematically hamstrung and weakened to the point of ineffectuality? Where there's no will, there's no way.

We have laws in place, they have been ignored and spit on for years. This is not some new problem. It has been the responsibility of the federal government to maintain secure borders and handle legal immigration since its inception. It's not rocket science. We are not so poor or stupid that our only option is to shrug our shoulders and say, oh well, it's just too hard to secure the borders, too late now, why even try. Right.

Whether we believe in amnesty or not I hope people see that this is a nightmare created by our government. One must question whether it was by design, and if so, why.

 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
So in other words you can't sucessfully rebutall my post at all and instead choose to produce more Mexican/Latino bashing material? Got it.

your irrationally gross oversimplification of the issue and demonization of me doesn't make your "argument" any more compelling, or your rhetoric any more believable or verifiable, sorry.


Yes, because all illegal immigrants belong to a street gang. Let's sterotype them and throw them all out. :rolleyes:

another inanely gross oversimplification of the issue and demonization of me - ad homs will get you exactly nowhere and make you look like a moron, btw. try to answer without logical fallacies. try using facts for a change instead of slinging mud like a toddler having a temper tantrum.
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
So in other words you STILL can't sucessfully rebutall my post at all and instead choose to produce more Mexican/Latino bashing material and choose to call me a moron? Got it. :rolleyes:
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
So in other words you STILL can't sucessfully rebutall my post at all and instead choose to produce more Mexican/Latino bashing material and choose to call me a moron? Got it. :rolleyes:

i don't "rebuttal" irrational nonsense. and i'm glad you finally "got it". ;)
 

Joe_Stocks

Back from the Dead
Hi Mister T,

So it seems that, at least from reading your posts in this thread, that you don't believe anything should be done to stop illegal immigration. Is that a fair characterization of your position?
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
Hi Mister T,

So it seems that, at least from reading your posts in this thread, that you don't believe anything should be done to stop illegal immigration. Is that a fair characterization of your position?
No. But I do think it should be easier to obtain citizenship.
 
Top