Reality will be the set of all descriptive or informative sentences that can be said about the world and about ourselves that are true ( regardless of whether we ever get to know if they are true or not).
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What is Reality?
- Thread starter SalixIncendium
- Start date
I think there should be solid consensus that there is a reality external to ourselves. How are we sure? From the consistency of observation by billions of people over millennia. There is an earth, sky, water, gravity, etc.
We also recognize that we are imperfect observers. We are restricted to the biological limits of our senses and our central nervous system to accurately analyze the data we observe and gather on our external reality.
I would argue that we can trust the accuracy of our senses within their narrow range of detection because of natural selection. If our senses were not accurate and did not provide consistently reliable information, then we would not be able to survive. We have inherited senses that have been refined over billions of years. This is how we know that the electromagnetic wavelength we call "red" is the same for all of us. That being said, we know that on an individual basis there can be errors, pathology, and injury that can affect the quality of our perceptions. This is where the intersubjective agreement between multiple observers gives us the necessary confidence that what we are seeing is actually the same and real.
Reality exists without human observers. If we all became extinct tomorrow, the universe would continue on without us. If we observe the fossil record, there was a whole lot of reality going on before we even came on the scene. With reality established, building an accurate picture of reality comes down do mitigating all the ways we human beings draw incomplete or erroneous conclusion because we do not have sufficient data to make a strong or accurate conclusion.
This is why we must be patient and build our picture of reality piece by verified piece. We are making progress. Just look at the historical record to see how far we have come.
No kidding. They are ways we assimilate and group information in useful ways. But they are based on reality, the response to those real external stimuli. If the ways we group and categorize external data allow us to understand and make accurate predictions of reality, then mission accomplished. Yes, the word labels are arbitrary, but the ideas are not.
PureX
Veteran Member
I assume you're referring to that unfathomable realm of experienced and inexperienced 'external stimuli' as "reality", here. Which is not exactly correct. As "reality" is the imaginary world we create in our heads in response to this stimuli. The stimuli itself remains unfathomable and undefined, otherwise. You know, that realm you weirdly refer to as "objective reality" even though it's a complete mystery to you until you subject to your own personal intellectualized version of it. (Thus, turning it into a "subjective reality".)
What mission is that? The mission of obtaining functional control over our environment, for our own advantage? Or the mission of determining the truth of our existence?
The fundamental problem, here, is our confusing and conflating functional control with knowing the truth of our existence. And that is a VERY dangerous mistake for we humans to engage in, as we know from our recent past. Yet this "scientism" is on the increase these days, especially among self-avowed atheists. It's a very worrisome trend.
The external stimuli is exactly reality. Yes, our central nervous system must put the data together is a usable way and create a useful understanding of the external world. But that does not mean that we are completely unable to pin down any facts about reality. Comparing the observations of millions of different observers, as well as building tools to detect and examine reality beyond the limits of our biological senses, all give us knowledge of reality. Belaboring the point that we don't know it all yet does not mean we do not understand some of it.
Why, the mission of understanding reality of course.
What we do with our knowledge of reality is a separate issue altogether. If you are wanting to put the genie in the bottle and turn humanity back to a more ignorant and primitive time because you do not like the direction our increase understanding of reality is taking us as a species, then all I can say is it's too late. There is no turning back the clock. People are not going to stop their pursuit of knowledge and efforts to increase our understanding of reality. You need to focus your attention on human behavior and social psychology and use the realities found there to improve our existence in this closed system we call planet earth.
It is only by understanding reality that we will truly know what the truth of our existence is. And whatever that truth, we have to deal with it as it is, not as we wish it to be.
You also have this tendency to imply there were halcyon days in the past that are somehow lost through our expanding understanding of reality. All throughout our history, there has been cruelty, injustice, war, greed, etc. It will only be through our scientific acknowledgement and understanding of our inherited instinctual behaviors that we will ever begin to solve these problems. This is the truth of our existence.
PureX
Veteran Member
The word can't refer to both what is, and to what we think is, is, at the same time. That's far too confusing. Especially if you try to differentiate them as being "objective" and "subjective" reality. Because it's ALL SUBJECTIVE, to us. We are the 'subjects' of the subjectivity, after all.
Yes, but that "reality" is still the one in our heads. And is still based on functionality within the unfathomable sea of stimuli that we call "existence". So we have not fathomed that unfathomable sea of existence, at all, really. We've simply gotten a little bit better at functioning within it. Are you getting what I'm saying, here? Increased functionality does not equate to existential truth. And this is why as we humans get cleverer, we aren't getting wiser. And this is becoming a serious problem for us.
Understanding requires both functional effectiveness and the wisdom of application. We are not gaining in both.
That is not being achieved via science.
That is the more crucial aspect, however. Far more crucial than obtaining functional control. Having a loaded gun is of no real value to us unless we know why and when to apply that functionality. (And why and when not to!)
We need to stop building bigger and better guns until we figure out why and when to use them. Or we are surely going to kill ourselves with them.
And by "guns" I am referring to physical functionality: our ability to control and manipulate our physical environment.
That is patently false. And all of human history has shown it to be so. Functionality does not lead us to wisdom. In fact, history shows that it far more often leads us to self-destruction.
This is also patently false. Positive change does not happen by our accepting what it. It happens by our seeking what could be, instead of what is.
It is the effect of our fear and ignorance, not the "truth of our reality". And increasing our functional effectiveness only makes it more likely that we will annihilate ourselves. We need to start increasing our wisdom: gaining applicable knowledge of that "truth of our existence". And the scientific method cannot help us with this. We need philosophy, art, and religion.
Really, we are saying the same thing. Reality is that which is. Reality is that which causes external stimuli. Our central nervous system creates a subjective interpretation of it. Great. Can we evaluate how close our subjective interpretation of reality is to actual reality. Yes.
Of course I get what you are saying. What you call increased functionality is your label for all that we currently know of reality. And yes there is lots we know we don't know and there is that which we do not even have an inkling that we don't know it.
Existential truth is a different matter. We know why we as a species exists as the data clearly indicates that we have evolved from earlier species. As to why all of reality even exists is a question on which we do not have sufficient data on which to base a conclusion. Period. You can speculate and imagine a purpose, but that will be all that it is, a guess, a hope, a wish.
It is my understanding that the discussion was whether we can know reality (or some variation on that theme). It seems you are in agreement that we can understand reality and that understanding comes from science. Wisdom is a different topic. You will obstinately insist that it is not a separate issue, but what reality is and how we use what we know of reality are different things.
The ball is in humanities collective court as to our future well being. Yes we need to make smart and informed choices. Not the topic of discussion though.
Dude, really? Dealing with reality does not preclude taking active steps towards positive change. So, no, not patently false.
Ethics, aesthetics, art, and literature are all subjective and relate specifically to humanity and humanities needs, wants and desires. External reality of the universe is a separate issue. If there were no human beings, there would be no ethics, art, literature, etc., but there would still be reality.
I recommend you start a new thread on the topic of how we gain wisdom and/or how are morals/ethics derived.
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Entertainment.
gnostic
The Lost One
Reality is everything that “physical” or “natural” - hence “nature”.
Then there are stuffs that are man-made, artificial. The are often man-made objects or structures, that were either built/constructed or manufactured.
Reality is also human interactions - among themselves - as individuals or as groups - where they shared common goals, ideals.
Anything supernatural are anything made up by human imagination (eg stories of mythical beings or creatures, magic, miracles, etc) or human mental illnesses (eg hallucinations due to delusions, where ones can’t distinguish between reality and fantasies of the supernatural).
Supernatural aren’t reality...like I said, they are “made up”.