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What is or who is "God"?

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Ew.
That's the aspect of Christianity I find hardest to understand.

Let me explain it metaphorically.

Yin = mass= body-of-Christ
Yang = energy = blood-of-Christ
Tao = Time = Holy-Ghost

God is a word representing all three, and nothinginess, all at the same time. God is the semantic equivalent to the set of all sets.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Let me explain it metaphorically.

Yin = mass= body-of-Christ
Yang = energy = blood-of-Christ
Tao = Time = Holy-Ghost

God is a word representing all three, and nothinginess, all at the same time.
Well that was clear as mud.

No off offense intended to @'mud.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Well that was clear as mud.

No off offense intended to @'mud.

Dirt = Yin = mass = body-of-Christ
Water = Yang = energy = blood-of-Christ
Mud = Tao = Time = Holy-Ghost

Think of it as a metaphor for the idea of Unity of Opposites:

Unity of opposites - Wikipedia

"The term is also used in describing a revelation of the oneness of things previously believed to be different. Such insight into the unity of things is a kind of transcendence, and is found in various mystical traditions. The idea occurs in the traditions of TantricHinduism and Buddhism, in German mysticism, Taoism, Zen and Sufism, among others."
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
What is or who is "God"?
My relationship with Christianity is long and confused. It certainly didn't start early in my life because neither of my parents were believers. The first time that Christianity disturbed my life was at school where it was imposed with little discussion and therefore was perceived as an inconvenience. When I left the Army I visited a few churches local to our house in Oxford but that went nowhere.

My next experience with religion strangely enough was triggered by my daughter when one day she decided that she wanted to join the choir and of she trotted. I like to believe in “signs” and I took this as a sign that I should go to church as well. I don’t remember how long that lasted.

Eventually, in about 1970 I started studying with the Open University and spent a year or so taking a module on theology. My main thoughts on the course was that it was based on attempting to prove or disprove the existence of God by logic and beautiful as such arguments were I was not impressed because I thought that one cannot prove such matters by logic such as, “Someone or some being must have created this world”. One either believes or does not.

Arguments for the existence of God that I met studying at the Open University.
Ontological argument.

Anselm's ontological argument purports to be an a priori proof of God's existence. Anselm starts with premises that do not depend on experience for their justification and then proceeds by purely logical means to the conclusion that God exists.

Cosmological argument taken from Wikipedia.
In natural theology and philosophy, a cosmological argument is an argument in which the existence of a unique being, generally seen as some kind of god, is deduced or inferred from facts or alleged facts concerning causation, change, motion, contingency, or finitude in respect of the universe as a whole or processes within it.

The history of this argument goes back to Aristotle or earlier, was developed in Neoplatonism and early Christianity and later in medieval Islamic theology during the 9th to 12th centuries, and re-introduced to medieval Christian theology in the 13th century by Thomas Aquinas. The cosmological argument is closely related to the principle of sufficient reason as addressed by Gottfried Leibniz and Samuel Clarke, itself a modern exposition of the claim that "nothing comes from nothing" attributed to Parmenides.

Heaven, the afterlife, call it what you will.
I actually discussed this concept with my son and it covered what happens when one dies. We couldn’t accept that Heaven was up in the fluffy clouds where we would meet up with all our relatives and friends if we had behaved ourselves and we reached the provisional conclusion that Heaven was a collection of all that was good about those whom we had loved in some form of spirit but we knew that was a very loose description.

Why raise the question of God now?
I have been going to church again for the simple reason that I felt that I needed to so I waited until an Easter time a year or so ago and the question arose in my mind when a prayer was being made, “Just who or what am I attempting to communicate with?” Perhaps cynically, I thought that most of those in church may well pray to God but they had never given any thought to just who or what God was. So, there we are. I lay in bed or sit in my sofa and pose the same question to myself and I’m going nowhere with it. It would be so much simpler if I could have a C. S. Lewis experience where he wrote that he resisted the call from God and it was with reluctance that he eventually gave in.

All those arguments have been dismantled long ago.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I did not mean you were trying. I was just talking about the post you referenced. I don't think I read and speak words correctly sometimes. I thought I was agreeing with you.

Trust me, I can't count how may times I have misread or misunderstood posts. I was only saying that none of those arguments stand up and are not evidence of a god or a reason to believe in one. I am an atheist and so my viewpoint is different from yours, but while these arguments are faulty, that does not prove there is no god, only that believing because of these arguments would be wrong-headed. So we do agree in a way.
 

wandering peacefully

Which way to the woods?
I think it is important to appreciate above everything else God is just a word. What the word means is very subjective and different for each person. Many people share a broad meaning for the word God. But since we do not all experience God in reality the same way we experience "apples" what the word God means varies greatly. This is because the word God only exists in our use of words and language. For many atheists looking for evidence for the existence of God this is a bad thing. For most theists who have faith in God the lack of evidence for the existence of God is irrelevant. Having faith in God is a belief system. There are many types and categories of belief systems.

I believe each person has their own dogma or belief system. Dogmas are built on a set of assumptions or axioms accepted as being true without any evidence. For example, one axiom of a belief system could be, "God exists". Another could be "The Abrahamic God of the Old Testament exists." If you do not share another persons axioms then you will think they are crazy when they talk. This is because every sentence we speak must be aligned with the axioms of our own belief system to be considered not an insane thing to say. With my way of thinking about dogma means there is more than one path to God. All religions are true by themselves but wrong relative to each other because they do not share the same set of axioms.

Belief systems are important because they are the filter through which we experience our lives. If you want to have a happy meaningful life with divine purpose then you have to have a belief system that supports it. The problem with modern thought is the idea of nihilism. This is the idea that everything in the Universe is just patterns of energy swirling around following the laws of physics where no one pattern of energy is any more meaningful than any other. The nihilist doesn't believe in God. The nihilist believes everything we do is absolutely meaningless and insignificant on the cosmic timescale. Nihilist do not have any belief system. No axiom is worthy enough to be respected.

The best argument I've read against nihilism is the following. If everything in existence is meaningless, then it is also meaningless that it is meaningless. Therefore, we might as well choose meaningful over meaningless. I think it is important to see a distinction between "decisions" and "choices". Many atheists and nihilists want to make a "decision" about God based on evidence. As a person of faith, my faith is stronger than the lack of evidence. The lack of evidence means nothing to me. This is because I am making a "choice". Some choices are made based on no-reason. Some choices are just a choice. Some people are incapable of making choices.

The idea of making a real "choice" is very important in my way of thinking. Let me give you an example of a choice I made several years ago. In my circle of friends many are football, baseball, and basketball coaches. One of our friends moved away and I got invited to play in a fantasy football league. I generally do not care for football. I had not watch it for years. So I was very hesitant to join this fantasy football league. It was like eating dog food to me. Then I thought this is opportunity to do something based on a real "choice" because I had really no good reason to do this. So I decided to eat the dog food and told them, "Sure, I will join." And to my surprise I absolutely love playing fantasy football. It is one of favorite hobbies now.

Based on my life experiences, I think you can "choose" what axioms make up your belief system. I think just like choosing to participate in fantasy football the same is true with having faith in God or becoming a member of a particular religion. It's not a decision. It has to be a choice based on "no reason". People have to choose to have faith in God. And besides, what difference does it make if everything is all meaningless on the cosmic timescale. If your choices do not matter then you might as well make choices that give you the best possible chance to have a rewarding, happy, and meaningful life with divine implications. Some atheist and nihilists will argue their own choices are the best ones. But most atheists and nihilists I know are immature unhappy a holes with no real happiness or connection to other people and community. They are too busy being self-centered trying to prove just how much smarter they are compared to everyone else and that their own way of thinking is the only sane way of thinking.

To answer your questions: God exists. I will prove it to you. God is just a word. What the word means doesn't matter. God exists in our use of words and language. God is different than every other word in our dictionary because God represents every possible thought and experience that has or will ever occur. When everyone dies we go into the light, look into the face of God, and experience eternal Heavenly bliss. Answering the question of God gives us divine meaning in our lives, as opposed to, nihilism. Choosing to have a belief system based on faith is delusional on one level but who cares if it gives you divine meaning in your life as opposed to the negativity of nihilism. We create the way we experience our lives. We might as well make a conscious effort to experience our lives with style.
Thank you for rating my post. I'm just not sure why it was funny? I was being serious!
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Trust me, I can't count how may times I have misread or misunderstood posts. I was only saying that none of those arguments stand up and are not evidence of a god or a reason to believe in one. I am an atheist and so my viewpoint is different from yours, but while these arguments are faulty, that does not prove there is no god, only that believing because of these arguments would be wrong-headed. So we do agree in a way.

Faulty arguments abound in language. I think our words and language lack precision. It's amazing we can ever understand each other at all!

I totally respect the atheists way of thinking even though I do not choose to think the way atheists think. I find most atheists to be very thoughtful and many times understand the Bible better than many Christians do. Religion can be very offensive to many people in many ways. But so can nihilism. So it's probably equal frustrations on both sides.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
There can only be one true religion.

BINGO!
happy0064.gif


Logically, there can only be one truth....but in the religious 'supermarket' created by satan and his minions in this world, there is a virtual smorgasbord of choice. What is the best way to confuse humankind....give us too many choices.
confused0007.gif


There is one scripture that I will quote, that to me, explains the way through this maze....John 6:44

Jesus said, "No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him".

It is not just we who search for God, but God who is also searching for us. As a reader of hearts and minds, he knows us better than we know ourselves, so when he "draws" a person, it is because he sees in that heart, potential to become a valued citizen of his kingdom, that I believe will "come" and replace all the corrupted forms of rulership and worship that the devil created on this planet. (Daniel 2:44) God will also create a loathing for what is not truth, so that a clear distinction can be made. The "wheat" and the "weeds" do not resemble one another at the end of the age. (Matthew 13:24-30, 37-43)


If God "draws" us, we will know it. It will make us hungry for knowledge about him and his purpose for this earth and mankind upon it. This planet was never designed as a training ground for heaven, but as a place where God's human family could reside forever in peace and security. We messed that up by thinking we could do a better job of that on our own...without him. He has allowed us to see for ourselves where that would take us.

The kingdom will "come" ready or not and take us back to the beginning and the life God planned for us all along.

Its not that complicated really.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Ok, so we are creating something entirely new everyday, life, divinity, baby back ribs. The key point is that we are inventing life because it never got a chance to exist before.

So why not learn every divine attribute and virtue and aspire to eternal greatness. If God is at the end of the road then we can tell God we gave it our best shot being new creatures and all, its going to take some time to become holy and divine. But im willing to try.

Ok life on earth is necessity, and often hum drum and there is no time to ponder divinity, and the Great God, we've got surviving to do. And free time is for recuperation.

But our gears get stuck on higher purpose, and eternity if we let them, so we are left spinning in mud. And along comes the No Reason Proposal, reason being is that it fulfills our lives to live for God, or divinity.

Ok so life now has eternal purpose, and now we can kick back and enjoy it all, because the worry is solved. Hakuna mutata.

Whatever turns the keys man.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Faulty arguments abound in language. I think our words and language lack precision. It's amazing we can ever understand each other at all!

I totally respect the atheists way of thinking even though I do not choose to think the way atheists think. I find most atheists to be very thoughtful and many times understand the Bible better than many Christians do. Religion can be very offensive to many people in many ways. But so can nihilism. So it's probably equal frustrations on both sides.

Atheism and nihilism are not the same thing. I'm not a philosophy buff, but in order to understand why you might equate the two, I did the inevitable Google search and found this:

Nihilism is a philosophical doctrine that suggests the lack of belief in one or more reputedly meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived.

I believe my life, and other's lives have meaning. The meaning is given to one's life by one's self and/or by others. I don't understand why meaning has to be objective to be relevant.
The meaning given to,say, the Bible, is subjective. Does that mean it isn't important or relevant to the person giving the meaning to the book?

As to morality, most atheist believe that morality is basically subjective. However, once a society agrees on a collective understanding about whether a particular act is moral or immoral, one could could say an act then becomes objectively moral or immoral as measured against that standard.

So, I am not a moral nihilist. Even many lower social animals such as apes, dogs, etc. display moral tendencies, so I don't think that is true.
And I'm not an existential nihilist, because I believe people's lives can have meaning, although I'm thrown off on the suggestion that it has to be objective.

Don't know if that helps or hinders. I've never been much for labels.
 
I find this forum disappointingly infected with cynics and trolls with apparently no moderators to deal with them. I was looking for answers not abuse so I will withdraw from this forum and seek the truth elsewhere.
 
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