What is God's highest priority?

[Treasure Hunter]

I don't understand what you mean by there being no higher meaning than to seek justice on behalf of God's empty promises. I can't even tell if you believe in God or not tbh, or what you are arguing with

In Christianity, God made promises to believers. Those promises have gone unfulfilled.

I’m making two claims: (1) there is no higher moral value than the pursuit of meaning and (2) there is no higher, lasting meaning than to seek justice on behalf of those believers of God’s promises.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why did he create a Satan who he knew would interfere with those plans and bring most people to hell then?

God created Satan as an angelic cherub - Ezekiel 28:13-15
Satan was drawn out by his own desire for humans to worship him - James 1:13-15
Satan turned himself into a Satan and a Devil by disobeying God.

Biblical hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the 'sleeping dead' til Resurrection Day - Acts 24:15
( Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
When the King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that wrongly put flames in the grave.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were: destroyed.
Thus, it is No surprise the Bible teaches the wicked will be 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 37:38; 92:7; 104:35; 145:20
So, as there was No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy for Adam and there is none for anyone else.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is true and part of the story.
This is not part of the story. It’s used by some adults to scare children into obedience, but there is no deeper reality to it.

No, everything God created was good. Rather, Satan turned himself into a Satan and a Devil - James 1:13-15
As Adam and Eve were created with free-will choices so were the angels. God forces No one to worship Him.
Yes, false clergy also used fire as a scare tactic to try to control the Flock of God - Acts 20:29-30 ; 1st Timothy 4:1,3

 

[Treasure Hunter]

No, everything God created was good. Rather, Satan turned himself into a Satan and a Devil - James 1:23-15
As Adam and Eve were created with free-will choices so were the angels. God forces No one to worship Him.
Yes, false clergy also used fire as a scare tactic to try to control the Flock of God - Acts 20:29-30 ; 1st Timothy 4:1,3

Again, whose will is Satan using to rebel against God? Who created the will?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Again, whose will is Satan using to rebel against God? Who created the will?

Satan the Devil is using his own will. - Ezekiel 28:13-15; James 1:13-15
Adam was created with the given free-will choice as found at Genesis 2:17.
God forces No one in heaven or on earth to worship Him.
No one heavenly or earthly are created as robots or automatons.
Adam chose to break God's Law out of his own free-will choice.
Adam chose to obey Eve over God. No one forced or made Adam break God's Law.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Satan the Devil is using his own will. - Ezekiel 28:13-15; James 1:13-15
Adam was created with the given free-will choice as found at Genesis 2:17.
God forces No one in heaven or on earth to worship Him.
No one heavenly or earthly are created as robots or automatons.
Adam chose to break God's Law out of his own free-will choice.
Adam chose to obey Eve over God. No one forced or made Adam break God's Law.

Who created Satan’s will? Who created Adam’s will? Are they creators, or is God the one and only creator, including the one and only creator of all wills?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Each person has a choice between two wills regarding belief in God. Both wills are God’s wills competing against each other.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Each person has a choice between two wills regarding belief in God. Both wills are God’s wills competing against each other.

The ^ above ^ is showing that two wills means: choice.
Chose one will or the other will.
Obey one will or obey another will.
Adam chose to disobey God's Will ( Gen 2:17 ) and chose his own will against God's Will or purpose.

 

[InChrist]

Why did he create a Satan who he knew would interfere with those plans and bring most people to hell then?

Well, according to the scriptures, satan/Lucifer was initially created as a beautiful angel of light who was aware of God’s glory and power as Creator… yet he chose to let iniquity and lust for God’s place and power arise in his thoughts and rebelled. Doesn’t that seem futile and idiotic to you?

Anyway, so to your question,…why did God create Lucifer, since He knew that would happen?
I think because God is love and real love must be freely given and freely reciprocated. Lucifer was created with the free will to respond with love to God or to respond with evil. Since he chose evil, he (satan) has since been used by God to provide all created beings, first the angels and then every human, with a valid and real choice ; the love and goodness of the Creator or the sin and evil of self-exaltation.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

The ^ above ^ is showing that two wills means: choice.
Chose one will or the other will.
Obey one will or obey another will.
Adam chose to disobey God's Will ( Gen 2:17 ) and chose his own will against God's Will or purpose.

Consciousness gives a human being choice between God’s higher and lower (satanic) wills. Still, there are no wills other than God’s. Only how we direct our consciousness.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Well, according to the scriptures, satan/Lucifer was initially created as a beautiful angel of light who was aware of God’s glory and power as Creator… yet he chose to let iniquity and lust for God’s place and power arise in his thoughts and rebelled. Doesn’t that seem futile and idiotic to you?

Anyway, so to your question,…why did God create Lucifer, since He knew that would happen?
I think because God is love and real love must be freely given and freely reciprocated. Lucifer was created with the free will to respond with love to God or to respond with evil. Since he chose evil, he (satan) has since been used by God to provide all created beings, first the angels and then every human, with a valid and real choice ; the love and goodness of the Creator or the sin and evil of self-exaltation.

Lucifer, using the higher will of God, rebelled against the lower will of God by coming down into the world. The same as each of us who followed him down into this world. Lucifer’s story is a hero myth, not a cautionary tale.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Well, according to the scriptures, satan/Lucifer was initially created as a beautiful angel of light who was aware of God’s glory and power as Creator… yet he chose to let iniquity and lust for God’s place and power arise in his thoughts and rebelled. Doesn’t that seem futile and idiotic to you?

Anyway, so to your question,…why did God create Lucifer, since He knew that would happen?
I think because God is love and real love must be freely given and freely reciprocated. Lucifer was created with the free will to respond with love to God or to respond with evil. Since he chose evil, he (satan) has since been used by God to provide all created beings, first the angels and then every human, with a valid and real choice ; the love and goodness of the Creator or the sin and evil of self-exaltation.

Free will can't exist if God knows the future, only the illusion of it can. Think about it, if everything you will do is known with absolute, unchangeable certainty in the mind of God then in what sense could you be said to have free will? You would feel like you are making choices but in reality you couldn't do anything different, so not sure how this could be considered a free choice. Logically it seems to me that anything that happens and that anyone does in a universe ruled by an all-knowing and all-powerful god is ultimately that god's responsibility and no one else's, since no one even has the *ability* to perform any action that is outside what is already written in stone in God's mind. If Christianity is true, then reality would be analogous to a lucid dream in God's mind. No one would be responsible for anything except God.

 

[InChrist]

Free will can't exist if God knows the future, only the illusion of it can. Think about it, if everything you will do is known with absolute, unchangeable certainty in the mind of God then in what sense could you be said to have free will? You would feel like you are making choices but in reality you couldn't do anything different, so not sure how this could be considered a free choice. Logically it seems to me that anything that happens and that anyone does in a universe ruled by an all-knowing and all-powerful god is ultimately that god's responsibility and no one else's, since no one even has the *ability* to perform any action that is outside what is already written in stone in God's mind. If Christianity is true, then reality would be analogous to a lucid dream in God's mind. No one would be responsible for anything except God.

You’re free to your view (at least I believe you are free), but I don’t think that because God knows all future events or choices people make, negates the fact that each person freely makes their choices. Knowing is not causing, in my perspective.

 

[InChrist]

Lucifer, using the higher will of God, rebelled against the lower will of God by coming down into the world. The same as each of us who followed him down into this world. Lucifer’s story is a hero myth, not a cautionary tale.

I don’t know where you get your ideas, but they make no sense to me.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I don’t know where you get your ideas, but they make no sense to me.

It starts very simple. God is the only creator of wills. Competing wills means God has higher and lower wills.

I’m being persistent about this because you will get stuck if you have a rule to never rebel against God. Rather, it is God’s will for you to rebel against him. Just do it cautiously.

If I’m wrong, you’ll have to say who else creates wills other than God.

 

[InChrist]

It starts very simple. God is the only creator of wills. Competing wills means God has higher and lower wills.

I’m being persistent about this because you will get stuck if you have a rule to never rebel against God. Rather, it is God’s will for you to rebel against him. Just do it cautiously.

If I’m wrong, you’ll have to say who else creates wills other than God.

So where did you get this idea from? Did you make it up or read these ideas somewhere? Just interested.
I don’t think the idea that God creates wills, or lower and higher wills makes any sense at all. I just wonder what you base that idea on.
From my view, God created beings; angelic and human and gave each a will which they then use to make choices- good or evil, right or wrong.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

So where did you get this idea from? Did you make it up or read these ideas somewhere? Just interested.
I don’t think the idea that God creates wills, or lower and higher wills makes any sense at all. I just wonder what you base that idea on.
From my view, God created beings; angelic and human and gave each a will which they then use to make choices- good or evil, right or wrong.

If God exists, God created everything. We choose what is brought into conscious awareness.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

You’re free to your view (at least I believe you are free), but I don’t think that because God knows all future events or choices people make, negates the fact that each person freely makes their choices. Knowing is not causing, in my perspective.

Knowing may not be causing, but if there is no other option for our choices other than what exists in the mind of God, then how can we be said to be free in any sense of the word? If my future actions are constrained by whatever God knows I will do and I can't act outside of that, then I am not free and only have the illusion of choice.

 

[InChrist]

Knowing may not be causing, but if there is no other option for our choices other than what exists in the mind of God, then how can we be said to be free in any sense of the word? If my future actions are constrained by whatever God knows I will do and I can't act outside of that, then I am not free and only have the illusion of choice.

Who says choices exist in the mind of God or that they are constrained by what God knows? I don’t see it that way. Rather, God is outside of our timeframe, wherein we make our choices. God is in the eternal realm and sees the beginning to the end of our lives, all at once, from outside our timeframe. I don’t think because God can see our choices and actions taking place in any way inhibits, constrains, affects, or alters our ability to make completely free choices.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Who says choices exist in the mind of God or that they are constrained by what God knows? I don’t see it that way. Rather, God is outside of our timeframe, wherein we make our choices. God is in the eternal realm and sees the beginning to the end of our lives, all at once, from outside our timeframe. I don’t think because God can see our choices and actions taking place in any way inhibits, constrains, affects, or alters our ability to make completely free choices.

What are you choosing between? (1) What God knows you will choose and (2) ?

What’s the second option?