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What if you're wrong

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
What I had attempted to do, was to get people to think in new ways, in order to facilitate both understanding and fruitful dialogue. So often, threads devolve into name calling and dogma bashing, and this isn't good for anybody. But, it seems that there are some people here who simply either don't get it, or don't want to. It's sad, really. This is supposed to be a place where fruitful dialogue can take place, where learning and understanding each other should be the main goal. However, there are those who don't want these things, and argue just for arguing's sake. This is pointless, and leads nowhere.

In today's world, mutual understanding is needed now more than ever, especially in the realm of religion. And, this is one place where that could happen, but there are some people who simply don't want that to happen. It's difficult to engage in fruitful dialogue with people who simply want to mock, argue, bash, etc. You will have this wherever you go, it's not completely avoidable. But, if we can minimize that, we can get to where our dialogues with each other can be meaningful and fruitful.

I had intended this to be something to get people to think outside the box, as something noble and worthy. But some have attempted to take that, and turn it into something else, something not quite so noble and worthy, and just use it as a means to their own self-aggrandizing end. It's sad, when, most people here, and elsewhere, wish for understanding and learning, but then have to deal with those who wish to derail threads, or start wars, or just can't handle the thought of anything worthwhile.

This is something I've been thinking about for awhile. I quite enjoy dialogue and discussion and debate of religion, but there are some who make it seem more like a chore than a hobby, so to speak. It gets old having to deal with those who's only goal is their own self-pleasure by putting down others, whether for religious reasons, or for their own entertainment. It makes debating and discussing religion (in this case) seem like it's pointless. Instead of fruitful dialogue, mutual understanding, and the chance to learn, it turns into something that, for me, can quickly lead to anger. It gets old, and I'm tiring of doing it.

Maybe I'll just relegate myself to the Dharmic DIR's, or maybe it's just time for me to leave. In either case, I've come to dread something I once loved.
 

FREE-of-FAITH

FREE-of-FAITH
You mean you understood that post? :D
I guess I am not seeing the arrogance you come across in your debates. when someone says to me their view I would hope they really believe what they are saying and be firm in their belief, It is then my choice to rebutt or agree but I should not rebutt with the intent to change their belief and get mad and call them arrogant for sticking to it. right? I am not sure how many times my religion has been called Goat herders philosophy and I should be more intune with the times blah blah, If defending that is arrogant, well indeed I am and proudly so.

What was so difficult to understand? I am sorry if you can't understand "Some religions say if you are Christian you will be doomed", but then I guess that's what happens when you have the hubris of believing your religion is the right one! Which is the foundation of accepting most religions in the first place.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What was so difficult to understand? I am sorry if you can't understand "Some religions say if you are Christian you will be doomed", but then I guess that's what happens when you have the hubris of believing your religion is the right one! Which is the foundation of accepting most religions in the first place.

I think you mean "Some religions think if you are NOT Christian you will be doomed".

I have posted to Christians that Matthew 28:19 that has been translated "Go therefore and make disciples" probably means go BE disciples. "Make" seems to have been added. The reason why some Christians believe you should be Christian too is mainly what they believe Matthew 28:19 says. They understand the order to make you like them is coming from The Lord. And they won't listen to me.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
What I had attempted to do, was to get people to think in new ways, in order to facilitate both understanding and fruitful dialogue. So often, threads devolve into name calling and dogma bashing, and this isn't good for anybody. But, it seems that there are some people here who simply either don't get it, or don't want to. It's sad, really. This is supposed to be a place where fruitful dialogue can take place, where learning and understanding each other should be the main goal. However, there are those who don't want these things, and argue just for arguing's sake. This is pointless, and leads nowhere.

In today's world, mutual understanding is needed now more than ever, especially in the realm of religion. And, this is one place where that could happen, but there are some people who simply don't want that to happen. It's difficult to engage in fruitful dialogue with people who simply want to mock, argue, bash, etc. You will have this wherever you go, it's not completely avoidable. But, if we can minimize that, we can get to where our dialogues with each other can be meaningful and fruitful.

I had intended this to be something to get people to think outside the box, as something noble and worthy. But some have attempted to take that, and turn it into something else, something not quite so noble and worthy, and just use it as a means to their own self-aggrandizing end. It's sad, when, most people here, and elsewhere, wish for understanding and learning, but then have to deal with those who wish to derail threads, or start wars, or just can't handle the thought of anything worthwhile.

This is something I've been thinking about for awhile. I quite enjoy dialogue and discussion and debate of religion, but there are some who make it seem more like a chore than a hobby, so to speak. It gets old having to deal with those who's only goal is their own self-pleasure by putting down others, whether for religious reasons, or for their own entertainment. It makes debating and discussing religion (in this case) seem like it's pointless. Instead of fruitful dialogue, mutual understanding, and the chance to learn, it turns into something that, for me, can quickly lead to anger. It gets old, and I'm tiring of doing it.

Maybe I'll just relegate myself to the Dharmic DIR's, or maybe it's just time for me to leave. In either case, I've come to dread something I once loved.

Perhaps you should just leave? What's the point of sticking around if it's just a drag?
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
I say throw all of the rituals and laws out and choose to walk in love.If you miss the mark there is nothing greater you could have done and at least you were worth more as a human being. Against love there are no laws. Love never seeks its own and only sacrifices and gives.Love God with all of your heart and love others as yourself and i am pretty sure God will see past all of the religious rituals.If I am wrong I would not want to be right.
 
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Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
If Christianity is wrong: I will not have lost anything.I will not be able to regret my religious decisions. It's been a 'heck of a way to live'.No-one else will be able to gloat over the fact that they were right...because we all cease to exist anyway.I will have lived a good, fulfilled and enjoyable life anyway.

Well, you'll have wasted a whole lot of time on something that didn't end up mattering. I'd say that's a loss. Plus you're assuming there are only two choices: Christianity or nothing at all. There are a lot of other choices where you would lose something. Say, for instance, Islam is right, and Allah punishes you in Hell for eternity for not following his religion.

 

FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
I say throw all of the rituals and laws out and choose to walk in love.If you miss the mark there is nothing greater you could have done and at least you were worth more as a human being. Against love there are no laws. Love never seeks its own and only sacrifices and gives.Love God with all of your heart and love others as yourself and i am pretty sure God will see past all of the religious rituals.If I am wrong I would not want to be right.
I agree. With or without god, treat everyone on this earth as a precious friend. If that doesn't get you were you want to go, then I don't want to go there.
 

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
If Christianity is wrong: I will not have lost anything.I will not be able to regret my religious decisions. It's been a 'heck of a way to live'.No-one else will be able to gloat over the fact that they were right...because we all cease to exist anyway.I will have lived a good, fulfilled and enjoyable life anyway.

If Christianity is correct:I will have gained everything, and go to heaven in the afterlife.The unsaved will not be granted eternal life and God will destroyed their souls (I don't believe that the place called Hell is taught in the Scriptures).I will live on the new Heaven and earth for eternity.

And what if you are wrong in that thinking (highlighted in red above) ? If you are wrong, there could be so many things that are wrong - including the idea that you'll cease to exist and just wouldn't matter. What if you are wrong and relive to witness Hell ? I think that is what the OP is asking .
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
What I had attempted to do, was to get people to think in new ways, in order to facilitate both understanding and fruitful dialogue. So often, threads devolve into name calling and dogma bashing, and this isn't good for anybody. But, it seems that there are some people here who simply either don't get it, or don't want to. It's sad, really. This is supposed to be a place where fruitful dialogue can take place, where learning and understanding each other should be the main goal. However, there are those who don't want these things, and argue just for arguing's sake. This is pointless, and leads nowhere.

In today's world, mutual understanding is needed now more than ever, especially in the realm of religion. And, this is one place where that could happen, but there are some people who simply don't want that to happen. It's difficult to engage in fruitful dialogue with people who simply want to mock, argue, bash, etc. You will have this wherever you go, it's not completely avoidable. But, if we can minimize that, we can get to where our dialogues with each other can be meaningful and fruitful.

I had intended this to be something to get people to think outside the box, as something noble and worthy. But some have attempted to take that, and turn it into something else, something not quite so noble and worthy, and just use it as a means to their own self-aggrandizing end. It's sad, when, most people here, and elsewhere, wish for understanding and learning, but then have to deal with those who wish to derail threads, or start wars, or just can't handle the thought of anything worthwhile.

This is something I've been thinking about for awhile. I quite enjoy dialogue and discussion and debate of religion, but there are some who make it seem more like a chore than a hobby, so to speak. It gets old having to deal with those who's only goal is their own self-pleasure by putting down others, whether for religious reasons, or for their own entertainment. It makes debating and discussing religion (in this case) seem like it's pointless. Instead of fruitful dialogue, mutual understanding, and the chance to learn, it turns into something that, for me, can quickly lead to anger. It gets old, and I'm tiring of doing it.

Maybe I'll just relegate myself to the Dharmic DIR's, or maybe it's just time for me to leave. In either case, I've come to dread something I once loved.

Well said!
 

FunctionalAtheist

Hammer of Reason
And what if you are wrong in that thinking (highlighted in red above) ? If you are wrong, there could be so many things that are wrong - including the idea that you'll cease to exist and just wouldn't matter. What if you are wrong and relive to witness Hell ? I think that is what the OP is asking .
I wonder if what you are pointing out indicates a common theme for some theists? It seems on many occasions theists seem to imply or think that if any little piece of an explanation is wrong then the whole explanation is wrong. This kind of logic is often used against scientific theory.

Does it have something to do with confidence in knowledge? Maybe some people feel that if they don't have perfect truth they have no reason to even bother understanding any thing?

As a scientist, I believe in isolating different factors, one by one, and studying the affects on the whole. That way if the overall model is not quite right, we are able to find the piece that needs adjusting.

Maybe with the assumption of absolute authority and knowledge, if one piece is not right, it feels like the whole house falls down?
 

Lady B

noob
The red part highlighted is not fair imo. It seems to say if one or two people do not agree I might get angry. In two years of posting on forums and 8000 posts I have hardly had three interesting discussions about my own theories. OTG. You think I am exaggerating? I am present for learning optimism. Thank you! LOL

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...40956-christians-why-do-you-hate-gays-92.html

Savagewind, I was not directing My observations at you, It was a general observation on how arrogance springs up in dialogue.I have personally never found you to be arrogant If that helps. :)

I would not say your exaggerating as much as your probably MIS-defining interesting. I have seen many of your threads and I have found them interesting, I may not agree with you but you have put out some very interesting and debate worthy threads. And to be fair I don't find I agree with most of the subject matter on RF, but I find interest In so many Threads sometimes I find myself sitting ,reading,replying for hours and learning new perspectives.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Perhaps you should just leave? What's the point of sticking around if it's just a drag?

But to ask people will You please stop making it a drag is not OK? Just leave....I am sure everyone has a bad day. The original post is about being AWARE that You might be making it a drag for others here on a regular basis.

Your reply is proof positive that dyanaprajna2011 isn't just making it up and complaining. It is real. Was your post ironic on purpose, I wonder?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Savagewind, I was not directing My observations at you, It was a general observation on how arrogance springs up in dialogue.I have personally never found you to be arrogant If that helps. :)

I would not say your exaggerating as much as your probably MIS-defining interesting. I have seen many of your threads and I have found them interesting, I may not agree with you but you have put out some very interesting and debate worthy threads. And to be fair I don't find I agree with most of the subject matter on RF, but I find interest In so many Threads sometimes I find myself sitting ,reading,replying for hours and learning new perspectives.

Thank you. Yes, I am also so intrigued with RF that I sit for hours at it. Very interesting stuff. My bum's not happy about it though. :D
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
But to ask people will You please stop making it a drag is not OK? Just leave....I am sure everyone has a bad day. The original post is about being AWARE that You might be making it a drag for others here on a regular basis.

Your reply is proof positive that dyanaprajna2011 isn't just making it up and complaining. It is real. Was your post ironic on purpose, I wonder?

Agreed. I'm reluctant to jump in to help derail the thread further, but in the interest of moral support, dyanaprajna2011 is not wrong at all in being distressed and perturbed by the turn of this thread. Too many threads, clearly this one included, start off with a good premise and descend into a "who can lift their leg higher to **** on the tree" slugfest. Leave the alpha male strutting to the elks in rut. :rolleyes:
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
But to ask people will You please stop making it a drag is not OK? Just leave....I am sure everyone has a bad day. The original post is about being AWARE that You might be making it a drag for others here on a regular basis.

Your reply is proof positive that dyanaprajna2011 isn't just making it up and complaining. It is real. Was your post ironic on purpose, I wonder?

He's the one who suggested leaving the forum. Perhaps you should re-read the OP.
 

Lady B

noob
Maybe I'll just relegate myself to the Dharmic DIR's, or maybe it's just time for me to leave. In either case, I've come to dread something I once loved.

I would encourage you to stay Dyana, I enjoy your imput here and you would be missed. As for those who cause you to lose heart,Perhaps today they are seeing their behavior and will tone it down a bit, If so then you have succeeded in bettering a community and have helped us all, for that alone you must stay and persevere:) Threads such as this one Go a long way, I think each of us will take more care for how we come across to others, we all have arrogant tendencies myself included and we can learn much from seeing ourselves through the eyes of others.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I would encourage you to stay Dyana, I enjoy your imput here and you would be missed. As for those who cause you to lose heart,Perhaps today they are seeing their behavior and will tone it down a bit, If so then you have succeeded in bettering a community and have helped us all, for that alone you must stay and persevere:) Threads such as this one Go a long way, I think each of us will take more care for how we come across to others, we all have arrogant tendencies myself included and we can learn much from seeing ourselves through the eyes of others.

I agree with Lady B on this one, Dyana. I value your posts, as well as your friendship, and would be greatly saddened to see you go.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He's the one who suggested leaving the forum. Perhaps you should re-read the OP.

According to the OP, which I remember, he was appealing to the RF community to work together to get good things accomplished. That is why some of us are here. Some others seem to be here to lord it over the rest present. If maybe the lords of forum would forbear from their extra confident assurance that everyone else must come around to their way or else, it would be a better place. What I gleaned from the OP is he does not want to leave. He even said he might wish to stay only posting in DIR which is sad I think. DIRs are sometimes too dangerous to post in. Have you tried?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Exactly my point. I wouldn't suggest that someone would have a lot of luck if they only posted in DIR's, and if someone truly is not enjoying their experience here then why hassle them to stay.:fish:

Well I usually do not hassle anyone to stay. Some people might think "please stay" is not a hassle but a friendly kindness. I would. Grnadma's wisdom works best in this situation I suspect. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything. It can't hurt. If it happens all the time it might hurt.:p
 
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