What if you're wrong

[savagewind]

Savagewind just because one person or even a few reject your own personal beliefs does not make your beliefs wrong.And It doesn't mean their rejection is wrong either,your belief may be wrong for them, so be it. I think we all expect to much of each other sometimes,we really expect that If we are right then surely everyone must agree and when they do not we feel hurt, slighted or angry and we take it out on them, this is where arrogance becomes a problem.
In this forum alone we have an amazing amount of individuality, all walks of life, all experiences all customs and origins we cannot possibly expect that we all will agree and we can't expect we will all be civil either.The thing that seems to bring us all together is a love and concern for each other and a respect for our differences and a willingness to hear others thoughts, beliefs and opinions , I am good with that
By the way, I am curious about your dog theory, you have a link?

The red part highlighted is not fair imo. It seems to say if one or two people do not agree I might get angry. In two years of posting on forums and 8000 posts I have hardly had three interesting discussions about my own theories. OTG. You think I am exaggerating? I am present for learning optimism. Thank you! LOL

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...40956-christians-why-do-you-hate-gays-92.html

 

[9Westy9]

If Christianity is wrong: I will not have lost anything.I will not be able to regret my religious decisions. It's been a 'heck of a way to live'.No-one else will be able to gloat over the fact that they were right...because we all cease to exist anyway.I will have lived a good, fulfilled and enjoyable life anyway.

If Christianity is correct:I will have gained everything, and go to heaven in the afterlife.The unsaved will not be granted eternal life and God will destroyed their souls (I don't believe that the place called Hell is taught in the Scriptures).I will live on the new Heaven and earth for eternity.

pascals wager

 

[9Westy9]

I thought I addressed that...if Christianity is wrong...what have I lost? There are millions of different beliefs out there in the world. So. Like someone has said...do I go to the Muslim Hell? The Bible (believe it or not) does not even speak of such a place as is taught (eternal punishment). Noah never preached about such a place. Neither did Abraham. Neither did Jesus. Yes...I am rather dogmatic. However...if I am wrong...okay. If a non-Christian (or whatever) is right...so, be it. As a Christian...I am commanded to love your soul either way....

What is there is a god but he only let's in people who didn't believe in god(s) and he sends everyone who did believe in a god(s) to hell? Then you've lost everything

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What is there is a god but he only let's in people who didn't believe in god(s) and he sends everyone who did believe in a god(s) to hell? Then you've lost everything

Arbitrary and baseless "what if" propositions are entirely worthless.

 

[LuisDantas]

Arbitrary and baseless "what if" propositions are entirely worthless.

That may be so. But it sure makes more sense and is more morally defensable than Pascal's Wager.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

This is something that I've been thinking about for some time. This is also something that I ask myself all the time, to find any errors in my thinking, to make sure I know what it is I believe and why.

We see a lot of hard-lined believers, from every religion, here, and elsewhere. I see a lot of people absolutely convinced that their view is right, and every other view that disagrees with theirs is wrong. And I'm not talking about simple faith and conviction, what I'm talking about borders on sheer arrogance.

With all that said, I have a question, for everyone here, regardless of faith and belief: have you ever considered the fact that you might just be wrong? I'm not saying this in order to get people to doubt their beliefs; I'm asking this question in hopes of getting people to understand where the other side of the debate is coming from, in order to facilitate more civil and productive debate, instead of debates that just devolve into arrogant bullying and sarcastic name-calling. That kind of debate is not productive, and gets us no where in attempting to understand each other and our different religious ideas.

Any thoughts? Anyone agree, or am I way off base with this and just rambling?

My current beliefs are a result of questioning again and again. And I presume I am wrong, in that statements of knowledge are merely statements of confidence. What am I betting against? That I will burn in hell forever? I have found no religion, no theological belief system, that both believes this and has any moral legitimacy. If this is true, then god is an evil twisted SOB. If I am wrong, I accept responsibility for my use of logic, in a world were god despises logic, and I burn in hell for all eternity by the hands of a tormentor. That god is not worth giving up my 70 or so happy years on earth for some possible reward later on. That god is a devious, twisted individual who hides and says believe. Who give evidence that all beliefs are wrong, and says believe. Who says if you use the senses and cognitive abilities I have given you, instead of believing some ancient tome, that you have no rational reason to accept over Beowulf, then you burn in hell. Personally, If I am wrong, then I'll **** on that god as I go down to hell.

 

[Koldo]

Arbitrary and baseless "what if" propositions are entirely worthless.

Not if they are used to make a point.

 

[Green Kepi]

pascals wager

Okay...thanks. It's also called 'faith'....

 

[Green Kepi]

What is there is a god but he only let's in people who didn't believe in god(s) and he sends everyone who did believe in a god(s) to hell? Then you've lost everything

So I would...be in deep 'poop' then ...however, the God I believe in did not even mention the 'man-made up' Hell. I think it amazing that man had to invent the place to keep people into their religion based on fear. Like some say... "If there were no religion, man would have invented one"...same holds true with hell....

 

[LuisDantas]

Actually, Pascal's Wager does not acknowledge the existence of faith.

 

[Koldo]

If Christianity is wrong: I will not have lost anything.I will not be able to regret my religious decisions. It's been a 'heck of a way to live'.No-one else will be able to gloat over the fact that they were right...because we all cease to exist anyway.I will have lived a good, fulfilled and enjoyable life anyway.

Actually, this is only true if there is no god with no afterlife.
But the possibilities where different gods and different kinds of afterlife ( which rely on how you lived your life ) exist are infinite.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Arbitrary and baseless "what if" propositions are entirely worthless.

LOL, isnt' this whole thread a 'what if?"

 

[9Westy9]

Arbitrary and baseless "what if" propositions are entirely worthless.

pretty sure all possibilities about life after death are baseless. What's your point?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

If Christianity is wrong: I will not have lost anything.I will not be able to regret my religious decisions. It's been a 'heck of a way to live'.No-one else will be able to gloat over the fact that they were right...because we all cease to exist anyway.I will have lived a good, fulfilled and enjoyable life anyway.

If Christianity is correct:I will have gained everything, and go to heaven in the afterlife.The unsaved will not be granted eternal life and God will destroyed their souls (I don't believe that the place called Hell is taught in the Scriptures).I will live on the new Heaven and earth for eternity.

Haven't you? Have you considered the effect of the possibility of a false belief on anyone other than yourself? If, as a good christian, you believe the after-life is more important than the here and now, then your thoughts and decisions will not focus on what is best for all mankind here and now. That would only be a secondary concern. So you may contribute to religious causes instead of humanist causes. You may turn a blind eye to someone in need and worthy, because they are not on your side of a theological debate. You may vote with 'love for the sinner' mentality that sets human rights back. You may justify war, hatred, and even genocide, and justify it because of a false believe. Now, I don't think there is any argument to be made whatsoever that these atrocities have been going on since the dawn of civilization in the name of one god or another. The question is "What if you're wrong?"

So, what if you are only partly wrong? What is the effect on you? What if you have it almost right, but not quite? What if, instead of being judged by what we believe, and how we prepare for the next world, we are judged merely by how we make this world a better place? What if god thinks it's more important for you to concentrate on the 'love the sinner' part instead of the 'hate the sin' part? What if god really doesn't care if you even acknowledge him, only how we treat each other? Is god really so needy that he requires praise? What if Jesus' message was nothing more than quit arguing and fighting, live and let live, stop spending money on temples and buy food for the poor?

What if you burn in hell, not because god hates people that don't believe, but because you just didn't help enough people to make this a better place here? Do you really have it all figured out perfectly?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Arbitrary and baseless "what if" propositions are entirely worthless.

Not if they are used to make a point.

Agreed: in that case they are fallacious and therefore worse than worthless.

 

[HonestJoe]

I could actually be better off being wrong. Currently, I just don't believe in gods, though I like to think I'm a relatively good person. There are plenty of worldviews where I could still come out of that relatively well.

If I actually believed in a god though, I wouldn't be inclined to worship (I'm not inclined to worship anything) and it's perfectly plausible to have a god who would object more to belief but denial than simple lack of belief.

I'm also not giving up bacon for anyone!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Haven't you? Have you considered the effect of the possibility of a false belief on anyone other than yourself? If, as a good christian, you believe the after-life is more important than the here and now, then your thoughts and decisions will not focus on what is best for all mankind here and now.

Pummel that straw man!

 

[LuisDantas]

Agreed: in that case they are fallacious and therefore worse than worthless.

That was not at all the case, however.

 

[Jainarayan]

...I have a question, for everyone here, regardless of faith and belief: have you ever considered the fact that you might just be wrong?

Yes. Not necessarily about beliefs, but practices and rituals. And right now I'm in the throes of serious doubt and questioning. I think I'm a victim of "analysis paralysis". Though I have no doubt that living a "moral" and dharmic life to the best of my abilities is correct.

 

[Koldo]

Agreed: in that case they are fallacious and therefore worse than worthless.

Please do entertain me. How are they fallacious?