What if the the Baha'i Faith were right?

[TashaN]

I must say that I love the teachings of the Bahai Faith and believe the followers of the faith to be among some of the nicest people that I have ever met. I just wonder how the truth of the Bahai Faith can stand in light of some very important passages. How can we ignore these very clear statements made by Jesus Christ? This is not to argue about anything. Just to restate that Jesus said clearly that there will be false Christs' and prophets...Who could these be? You must come to your own conclusions, although it is hard to make a case for Baha'u'llah in the light of some of these passages.

Mark 13:21; "If anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ(Anointed)', or 'Behold, He is there', do NOT believe him, for false Christs and false prophets WILL arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order, if possible, to lead the elect astray."

Matthew 24:23; "Then if anyone says to you, Behold, here is the Christ, or there He is, do NOT believe him."

Luke 21:8; "See to it that you be not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, I am He' and, ' The time is at hand; do NOT go after them."

Ditto.

 

[Popeyesays]

I must say that I love the teachings of the Bahai Faith and believe the followers of the faith to be among some of the nicest people that I have ever met. I just wonder how the truth of the Bahai Faith can stand in light of some very important passages. How can we ignore these very clear statements made by Jesus Christ? This is not to argue about anything. Just to restate that Jesus said clearly that there will be false Christs' and prophets...Who could these be? You must come to your own conclusions, although it is hard to make a case for Baha'u'llah in the light of some of these passages.

Mark 13:21; "If anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ(Anointed)', or 'Behold, He is there', do NOT believe him, for false Christs and false prophets WILL arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order, if possible, to lead the elect astray."

Matthew 24:23; "Then if anyone says to you, Behold, here is the Christ, or there He is, do NOT believe him."

Luke 21:8; "See to it that you be not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, I am He' and, ' The time is at hand; do NOT go after them."

These are places in the Bible one cannot cherry-pick in. Here's the 24th chapter of matthew in entirety:

24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(King James Bible, Matthew)

Let's talk about the other citation later,

Regards,
Scott

 

[BruceDLimber]

UnityNow and Truth, my greetings!

I must say that I love the teachings of the Bahai Faith and believe the followers of the faith to be among some of the nicest people that I have ever met. I just wonder how the truth of the Bahai Faith can stand in light of some very important passages. How can we ignore these very clear statements made by Jesus Christ? This is not to argue about anything. Just to restate that Jesus said clearly that there will be false Christs' and prophets...Who could these be? You must come to your own conclusions, although it is hard to make a case for Baha'u'llah in the light of some of these passages.

What you clearly overlook is that Christ not only warned against false prophets but gave at least one major criterion for proving TRUE ones!

And that the New Testament goes on and provides more!

Jesus stated "By their fruits ye shall know them," and YOU YOURSELF just effectively complimented us on these!

And kindly let me refer you to First John 4:2 which contains one of the clearest tests/proof possible for Baha'u'llah, our Founder!:

First John 4:2 "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God."

Baha'u'llah does indeed say this, as you can see in His statements in the Baha'i scriptures about Jesus! Here's just one of many, many such passages:

"He that wedded not (Jesus) found no place wherein to dwell or lay His head, by reason of that which the hands of the treacherous had wrought. His sanctity consisteth not in that which ye believe or fancy, but rather in the things We possess. Ask, that ye may apprehend His station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth. Blessed are they who perceive it."
--The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 71

So Baha'u'llah is proven true by the Bible itself using its own test!

Thus, as I hope you can both see, it is in fact quite EASY to verify the truth of Baha'u'llah (and the Baha'i Faith) in the light of all this!

Piece of cake, simply a matter of examining the proofs . . .

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[UnityNow101]

11"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

Question to Scott; what was the "abomination that causes desolation" spoken of by the prophet Daniel, and when did that prophecy come to pass before Baha'u'llah? Also, did the anti-Christ arise before Baha'u'llah or is that a spiritual concept in the Bible as well?

Let me pose another question; If God did intend for the description of the Second Coming to be taken literally, how could he have been any more blunt and obvious as to what must occur? It seems to me as though God was pretty descriptive as to what must happen before Jesus returns.

 

[arthra]

In the early church there was a class of people called "prophets" that had the gift of prophecy... Apparently the early epistles were directed at some of these "prophets" who misused their gifts or were attempting to mislead the flock... So this warning about false prophets in my view was directed at those within the church who were trying to take the church down say a course that would be heretical...Remember the early Church Fathers were very concerned about Gnostics and other groups who they regarded as a threat .. Some of these were Docetists as well..

I realize these warnings in the early church are applied against any Prophet or teaching that has come about centuries later... but to me this also can deter people from the general advice to wait and watch for the Second Coming.

I think the Abomination that makes desolate was brought up here on this thread earlier and if you would like I will cite it again in case you had not read it...

86:2>According to this interpretation, the abomination of desolation refers not to a literal idol being set up in the Temple, but to individuals who, through worldly power, sought to make themselves as idols within the Faith of God. This understanding has not escaped Christians interpreters.
86:3>....The biblical correlation between religion and the Temple suggests that the term 'abomination of desolation' can be applicable to transgressions against any true religion. In all periods of history, there have been those who opposed the religion of God, some who pretended acceptance, and some who failed to live according to its precepts. In this broad sense, the transgression against God's sanctuary, the abomination of desolation, has occurred in all religions. ...​

About the Second Coming of Jesus...​

This is of course controversial for so many people but historically there were even messianic movements that still have adherents today from the fervor of the early nineteenth century in Christainity and a parallel movement in Islam that expected the Mahdi to arise about the same time...​

It was from these messianic movements that the Faith arose ...specifically first in Persia and later for many people in the West who believed the prophecies were indeed fulfilled..​

Is there still controversy about that? Indeed there is!​

... Anytime a new religion has arisen in the past it challenges the contemporary wisdom of the time. Now the true test I think is whether the fruits of that new faith can be assessed and weighed...​

- Art​

 

[arthra]

Abdul-Baha in the book "Some Answered Questions" addressed the issue of the descent of Jesus from the heavens...

For example, there is the subject of Christ’s coming from heaven:

it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven.

So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written:

“For I came down from heaven”;

and also in verse 42 we find:

“And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?”

Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13:

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
Observe that it is said, “The Son of man is in heaven,” while at that time Christ was on earth.

Notice also that it is said that Christ came from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born of Mary.

It is clear, then, that when it is said that the Son of man is come from heaven, this has not an outward but an inward signification;

it is a spiritual, not a material, fact.

The meaning is that though, apparently, Christ was born from the womb of Mary, in reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from the Divine World, and the Spiritual Kingdom.

And as it has become evident that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the Divine Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has an inner signification and is not an outward fact.

In the same way, His resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is a spiritual and divine fact, and not material; and likewise His ascension to heaven is a spiritual and not material ascension.

 

[Popeyesays]

Unity,

I refer you to Some Answered Questions on the Book of Daniel.

As to the AnitChrist, according to the bible the antichrist was with us in the day that John wrote the revelation while exiled to Patmos.

Abdu'l Baha refers to the "antichrist" often:

"Can you find in His words any justification for discord and enmity? The purpose of His life and the glory of His death were to set mankind free from the sins of strife, war and bloodshed. The great nations of the world boast that their laws and civilization are based upon the religion of Christ. Why then do they make war upon each other? The Kingdom of Christ cannot be upheld by destroying and disobeying it. The banners of His armies cannot lead the forces of Satan. Consider the sad picture of Italy carrying war into Tripoli. If you should announce that Italy was a barbarous nation and not Christian, this would be vehemently denied. But would Christ sanction what they are doing in Tripoli? Is this destruction of human life obedience to His laws and teachings? Where does He command it? Where does He consent to it? He was killed by His enemies; He did not kill. He even loved and prayed for those who hung Him on the cross. Therefore, these wars and cruelties, this bloodshed and sorrow are Antichrist, not Christ. These are the forces of death and Satan, not the hosts of the Supreme Concourse of heaven.
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 6)

"No less bitter is the conflict between sects and denominations. Christ was a divine Center of unity and love. Whenever discord prevails instead of unity, wherever hatred and antagonism take the place of love and spiritual fellowship, Antichrist reigns instead of Christ. Who is right in these controversies and hatreds between the sects? Did Christ command them to love or to hate each other? He loved even His enemies and prayed in the hour of His crucifixion for those who killed Him. Therefore, to be a Christian is not merely to bear the name of Christ and say, "I belong to a Christian government." To be a real Christian is to be a servant in His Cause and Kingdom, to go forth under His banner of peace and love toward all mankind, to be self-sacrificing and obedient, to become quickened by the breaths of the Holy Spirit, to be mirrors reflecting the radiance of the divinity of Christ, to be fruitful trees in the garden of His planting, to refresh the world by the water of life of His teachings -- in all things to be like Him and filled with the spirit of His love."
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 6)

According to John the day in which he lived was the "last days" and the antichrist was present:
"2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
(King James Bible, 1 John)

So by the narrator whom you quoted, Antichrist is with us always so what is the distinction of today in that regard? How can you say this is "the last days" when it has been by John's reckoning "the last days" for more than 2000 years?

Regards,
Scott

 

[TashaN]

did the anti-Christ arise before Baha'u'llah or is that a spiritual concept in the Bible as well?

This is what i was wondering about myself. Whenever i question something, all the answers from my baha'i friends seem to fall into the *spiritual* interpretation of the text to escape any contradiction or fallasy they might face when attempting to reconcile any kind of text.

 

[Popeyesays]

Truth,

The "antichrist" is with us always.

2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
(King James Bible, 1 John)

2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
(King James Bible, 1 John)

4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(King James Bible, 1 John)

1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
(King James Bible, 2 John)

Perhaps you can tie in the traditions of Ad Dajjal for us?

regards,
Scott

 

[s2a]

Miracles are worthless for those who do not get to witness them. I would point out that just such a miracle as you describe occured with jesus at the Transfiguration and yet since you did not witness it, you do not accept it.

Yeah...me...and a few billion others...

God reveals Himself as we are able to perceive Him. Can't ask for more.

Why not?

baha`u'llah received an emissary from a Shi'ih school in Karbila. The message to Him was would He deign to grant a miracle so the clergy at the school could become followers if he produced. Baha`u'llah said, "Fine". He stipulated that they would have to agree as to what precisely the miracle should be and if Baha`u'llah was able to produce it they would all publicly declare their belief in the bab and baha`u'llah and become Baha`i publicly.

For months they wrangled with just what this miracle should be. in the end they could not agree and feared that if they did agree Baha`u'llah would like a magician produce an illusion that would pin them to their word.

When the emissary returned to give baha`u'llah the rather craven message, he severed his relationship with the school of clergy, declared his belief in the Bab and baha`u'llah and lived to a ripe age as a baha`i of exemplary accomplishment.

For him the miracle had been produced.

Your testimony of personal faith is noted. I congratulate you in successfully ingratiating/validating your own sense of pirty.

I remain, as ever, utterly unimpressed and unpersuaded by such personalized entreaties of "truth".

And...you have NOT answered the simple question posed by the thread I referenced (and you dismissed)..."What's wrong with that?"

[Note: If your god is not especially over-concerned with the prospective salvation/redemption of billions of unrepentant/lost human souls existent today (as opposed to the billions "lost" throughout mankind's history), that's fine with me. Your god is more than welcome to claim extraordinary and unlimited powers...and do nothing forevermore. My invisible friend claims the same powers, but is too shy to be a "show-off" for himself. Just know that my invisible friend will send you to his invisible Hell if you don't send him flowers on a regular basis, or pledge to at least acknowledge his presence in a regularly practiced regimen. I predict that you will suggest that your god no more cares if I choose to remain an unbelieving heretic , than you (or your claimed god) will effort to substantively "prove" that your god IS THE God. Too bad for the billions that might see the "truth"...but such is the "test" of faith, I suppose...]

 

[Popeyesays]

Quote:
God reveals Himself as we are able to perceive Him. Can't ask for more.
Why not?

"Say: Yes, by My Lord! I am ignorant of all things except what God hath, through His 123 bountiful favor, been pleased to teach Me. To this We assuredly testify, and unhesitatingly confess it.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 122)"

"We have forbidden men to walk after the imaginations of their hearts, that they may be enabled to recognize Him Who is the sovereign Source and Object of all knowledge, and may acknowledge whatsoever He may be pleased to reveal. Witness how they have entangled themselves with their idle fancies and vain imaginations. By My life! They are themselves the victims of what their own hearts have devised, 205 and yet they perceive it not. Vain and profitless is the talk of their lips, and yet they understand not."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 204)

Regards,
Scott

 

[s2a]

Quote:
God reveals Himself as we are able to perceive Him. Can't ask for more.
Why not?

"Say: Yes, by My Lord! I am ignorant of all things except what God hath, through His 123 bountiful favor, been pleased to teach Me. To this We assuredly testify, and unhesitatingly confess it.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 122)"

"We have forbidden men to walk after the imaginations of their hearts, that they may be enabled to recognize Him Who is the sovereign Source and Object of all knowledge, and may acknowledge whatsoever He may be pleased to reveal. Witness how they have entangled themselves with their idle fancies and vain imaginations. By My life! They are themselves the victims of what their own hearts have devised, 205 and yet they perceive it not. Vain and profitless is the talk of their lips, and yet they understand not."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 204)

Regards,
Scott

Think about what this quotation actually SAYS:

"We have forbidden men to walk after the imaginations of their hearts, that they may be enabled to recognize Him Who is the sovereign Source and Object of all knowledge..."

So, in order to "recognize" knowledge (as being truth, or it's "sovereign Source" thereof), the imaginations of men's hearts must be prohibited ("forbidden").

This strikes me as the same rationale/strategy of "winning hearts and minds" to a "better" cause/philosophy embraced and executed by those that believed it was necessary to utterly destroy the targeted village so that it might be "saved" (at some point down the road of redemption). Such silly resistant villagers don't initially recognize the virtue and wonder of having their own imaginations, hopes, dreams, and aspirations more "properly/righteously" supplanted by "truthful" religious claims and dogmatic instructions/"revelations".

Every major contemporary religion preaches this ideology (albeit slightly varied as to method or "path") of some penitent "rebirth" that demands utter rejection of all previously held, "heart-felt imaginings". If it wasn't "religion" serving as pretext to this revelation of truth, I wonder what we'd call/categorize/identify such a process of in requisitely acquiring "true" knowledge.

"....They are themselves the victims of what their own hearts have devised, 205 and yet they perceive it not. Vain and profitless is the talk of their lips, and yet they understand not."

And so, if "unbelievers" in fact do not understand/perceive the "devices" of their own hearts...then how should they know to "seek" any god for "truth"?

You said:

Can't ask for more.

I replied:
Why not?

You have yet to definitively answer why "unbelievers" can not ask for "more", except to suggest that they must start from less...or nothing at all.

Human history, since the dawn of it's most primitive accountings, reveals that; tyrants, dictators, "divine birthright" kings, and claimed/self-appointed "gods" (be they faceless and remote--or very public and cast in bronze, or chiseled in marble as omnipresent icons) ask little of any one person's "faith" (regarding their heightened position of authority)...but their enforced demands of utter servitude and strict obedience to whatever they (as tyrants) say IS "truth" are never absent, nor likely permitted any further skeptical inquiry.

If (as the OP inquires) the "Baha'i Faith were right", it should be apparent to anyone that can "set aside the imaginations of their hearts" that it must be inescapably so.

The question that arises then is...why do so many people have faith-based beliefs in so many different "god(s)", or "powers", or "forces", or "spirits"? Why would any "true" god seek to foster or allow such error and confusion...especially if that god were indeed "Him Who is the sovereign Source and Object of all knowledge"? Would you endorse a public school teacher that instructed students in mathematics along similar methods? "You don't need to understand how the equation is solved, or why it 'works' as a soluble "proof'...you only need to feel that your solution is true, in your heart!"

Bunk.

And...a little scary to really think about...with any sort of a "victimized" and "hardened heart" like mine.

 

[Booko]

Sheesh, I started this thread as a joke and y'all turned it into something serious!

 

[Popeyesays]

Unbelievers (as in those who do not believe in God?), why should they be interested in asking for more or less--in their eyes there is no one to ask.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

"Human history, since the dawn of it's most primitive accountings, reveals that; tyrants, dictators, "divine birthright" kings, and claimed/self-appointed "gods" (be they faceless and remote--or very public and cast in bronze, or chiseled in marble as omnipresent icons) ask little of any one person's "faith" (regarding their heightened position of authority)...but their enforced demands of utter servitude and strict obedience to whatever they (as tyrants) say IS "truth" are never absent, nor likely permitted any further skeptical inquiry."

I am reminded of a prayer of the Bab: "is there any Remover of Difficulties save God? Say: Praised be God, He is God, All are His servants and all abide by His bidding."

See? From our point of view we are all God's servants no matter whether we believe we might be or not. And we all do God's will even if we drag ourselves screaming and shouting against our own actions.

God's will is never thwarted--at least not in the long run.

Regards,

Scott

 

[benign6]

OK, let's all hop on and see if we can get everyone's belief covered here (waves to mystics especially):

How would you react if at the end of the day you found out the Baha'i Faith was right?

(This is actually getting kinda fun now...can't wait to see who pops up next.)

Bahaism is an attempt to please everyone
BUT u know "you can't please everyone":no:
Take a bit out of many religions & make an amalgamation of them.

This was also attempted by a "Mughal" empror AKBAR of India. Though he was a Muslim on face-of-it but he was so fond of Indian culture & female-slaves(Kaneez) etc that he tried to invent a new religion named "Deen-e-illahi" (= Religion-of-god) but he failed miserably despite being an Empror he failed to spread his invention.

 

[Booko]

Bahaism is an attempt to please everyone
BUT u know "you can't please everyone":no:
Take a bit out of many religions & make an amalgamation of them.

Yes, occasionally people claim the Baha'i Faith is syncretistic. I've yet to meet anyone making the claim that demonstrated any serious knowledge of it, though. Who knows, you might be the first.

This was also attempted by a "Mughal" empror AKBAR of India. Though he was a Muslim on face-of-it but he was so fond of Indian culture & female-slaves(Kaneez) etc that he tried to invent a new religion named "Deen-e-illahi" (= Religion-of-god) but he failed miserably despite being an Empror he failed to spread his invention.

We're the 2nd most widespread religion, right behind Christianity, at the moment. It seems we've done a bit better "pleasing" people from every culture in humanity thus far. Time will tell, of course.

If our intent was to please people, there would be a whole list of teachings/commandments we'd be further off ditching.

 

[Popeyesays]

There are Baha`i's and Baha`i institutions functioning in countries which have no Muslims for that matter.

The Baha`i faith is the second most widely distributed and the MOST unified religion in the world according to adherents.com.

Regards,
Scott

 

[s2a]

Popeyesays opined...
Unbelievers (as in those who do not believe in God?), why should they be interested in asking for more or less--in their eyes there is no one to ask.

As Yoda might say; "That...is why you fail".

The "answers" in "asking for more or less" can be readily found within ourselves (!), beyond any wish or hope for some invisible and benevolent benefactor to somehow dole out "more" for the righteous, or "less" for the unbelieving heretic.

How much more plainly simple can it be said?

Believer's look to some "god" to definitively answer such questions.

Unbeliever's look to themselves in answering such questions.

We all share the same "questions". It's where we look for (and/or "find") the "answers" that profoundly distinguish the opposing philosophical perspectives.

You quoted me in saying:
"Human history, since the dawn of it's most primitive accountings, reveals that; tyrants, dictators, "divine birthright" kings, and claimed/self-appointed "gods" (be they faceless and remote--or very public and cast in bronze, or chiseled in marble as omnipresent icons) ask little of any one person's "faith" (regarding their heightened position of authority)...but their enforced demands of utter servitude and strict obedience to whatever they (as tyrants) say IS "truth" are never absent, nor likely permitted any further skeptical inquiry."

You replied:
I am reminded of a prayer of the Bab: "is there any Remover of Difficulties save God? Say: Praised be God, He is God, All are His servants and all abide by His bidding."

That's a pleasant enough prayer of self-validating faith, but...so what?

Forgive me if I don't wait for your god to pay my DirecTV bill, or regularly change the oil in my Honda Accord. As a married man of almost eighteen years now, I've yet to see any deity clean the kitty's litter box, mow the lawn, clear the toilet; much less decently house the thousands of homeless in my little hometown, or even provide them a scintilla of personal dignity.

See? From our point of view we are all God's servants no matter whether we believe we might be or not. And we all do God's will even if we drag ourselves screaming and shouting against our own actions.

And...you see? I am not dragged against my will to serve any cause or self-interest. You are welcome to characterize the actions of others as serving your particular god's "Will (or ordained/proscribed "purpose/reason" for existence--either consciously or "subconsciously"); but that "observation" only works if you invalidate the entire concept that individuals can choose (to act), of their own volition and manifested will to suit their own self-identified and (qualified) unique conclusions of existent reason and purpose.

God's will is never thwarted--at least not in the long run.

Sez you.

I'm reminded of Dubya's own estimation of his long-term "legacy" of achievement/failure. He "believes" that his own repeated escapades of utter incompetence and painful inadequacies will...some day...be vindicated by historians long after he has passed away. You wanna know upon what his proffered rationale in this fantasy vision is predicated? He thinks historians are still debating the merits of George Washington as a "good" (or "great") President. Yeah, right. The "jury is still out" on that call...just like evolution theory, global climate change, and whether or not Catherine Zeta-Jones is "doable" in the mind of any heterosexual male. ;-)

My experience has led me to conclude that anyone who ever truly believes that they fully understand; and claim to unerringly abide "God's Will", are fundamentalist nut-jobs that abandon all cognitive human reason or critical thought...all in the righteously upheld justification/rationalization of their own god's "plan".

Either you "believe" that human individuals can claim their own personalized reason/purpose in/of?for existence, or you irrationally believe that such claim is always false (because "god says so) absent any requisite faith in some belief of/in some supernatural deity/force/entity/spirit/alien life form.

 

[Popeyesays]

Whether you look inward or outward, the answers don't exist in this plane of existence.

Regards,
Scott