What I Don't Like About Christianity

[Ocellatus]

Although I agree with your objections, there were also such type of Protestants in the Netherlands who have risked or sacrificed their lives for hiding Jews in their homes from the Nazi's because they believed God demanded it from them knowing that it would not help them in any way to get into heaven and doubting if God would consider them as true believers.

These were brave and selfless acts - I couldn't agree more. The grandparents of my best friend (from Holland) hid Jews from the Nazis, despite their officers frequently coming to the house for seamstress repairs of their uniforms. From what he told me, their reasons had nothing to do with their faith or lack thereof. They were just decent people who cared about the wellbeing of others.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

My biggest issue with the Christian religion, especially the Protestant Christian religion, is the idea that belief is what determines one's ultimate character. Ultimately, the content of your character and your behavior toward others doesn't mean a thing in Protestant Christianity. If you're a kind, loving, empathetic person who doesn't believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then, according to Christian teachings, you're going to burn in Hell. If you're a terrible, nasty, judgmental person who does believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then according to Christian teachings, you're going to Heaven. Of course I don't believe anyone deserves eternal punishment for finite crimes, but that's another issue. The primary point I'm trying to make is that belief should not matter. What matters is how you treat others. A religion that places more importance on belief than action is not one I want to be a part of.

I find it is religious-myth teachings about going to burn in hell, and is Not the Bible's hell.
When the KJV Bible translated the word Gehenna into English as 'hell fire' that put the flames in hell.
Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever, Not burnt forever.
Or, as Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' Not burning forever.
The Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the un-conscious dead.
If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Since the Bible's hell has No flames is why Jesus taught ' sleep' in death at John 11:11-14.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach ' sleep' (Not pain) in death:
For example - Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.

True, the Bible does teach some people are resurrected to heaven such as those of Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 20:6;5:9-10.
The majority can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live life on Earth.
That is why ALL the resurrections that Jesus performed brought people back to life on Earth.
Please notice the figurative humble ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 are living persons on Earth at this soon coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth. Those ' sheep ' can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.

Jesus places more importance on action in giving a 'new' commandment at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has. So, if one believes what Jesus taught then one will do the actions that Jesus instructed one to do.

 

[nPeace]

So would you say that you believe an atheist who is a kind and moral person who simply cannot convince himself that the claims of Christianity are true would go to Heaven? BTW, if this is your view, it's a minority view among Christians.

I believe all people have the capacity to love. We are only labeled with a title, because people see the need to categorize.
However, atheist or not, I believe we are shaped by our experiences in life.

I have met people who practice Hinduism, and there were very hospitable. The same with people with other religious beliefs.
Even a criminal - one who robs people of their money, and might be even violent, might rush to the aid of a child in danger, or help an old lady cross the street, or give up his seat for a pregnant lady.
Why?
I believe because the quality of love is build into every human born from Adam's seed, since as the Bible says, Adam was made in the image of God, whose dominant quality is love.

Even though we show a measure of love though, we don't show it to the degree that God intended it to be shown. In short, the reason being sin, the influence of this wicked world, and its ruler - that figure that works behind the scene - Whom the Bible identifies as Satan the Devil.

In order to acquire that love - not perfectly - but to a greater degree that would allow us to truly display love, I believe we have to get to know the source of love, and live by his standards.
The Bible says:
1 John 4:7, 8 7 Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.

However, it is easy for us to say we have love, but really have no idea what it mean to have love.

I don't believe in the heaven or hell belief taught in Christendom.
The Bible says that God created the earth to be inhabited by righteous mankind forever.
So I believe what is said here:
Psalm 37:9-11 9 For evil men will be done away with, But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth.10 Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. 11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

Obviously, this means that for one (all people - atheist or not) to live forever in God's "plan", they must be humble, and trust in the true God.

 

[Kenny]

My biggest issue with the Christian religion, especially the Protestant Christian religion, is the idea that belief is what determines one's ultimate character. Ultimately, the content of your character and your behavior toward others doesn't mean a thing in Protestant Christianity. If you're a kind, loving, empathetic person who doesn't believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then, according to Christian teachings, you're going to burn in Hell. If you're a terrible, nasty, judgmental person who does believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then according to Christian teachings, you're going to Heaven. Of course I don't believe anyone deserves eternal punishment for finite crimes, but that's another issue. The primary point I'm trying to make is that belief should not matter. What matters is how you treat others. A religion that places more importance on belief than action is not one I want to be a part of.

Why does what other people think bother you?

Or is it that they teach that God is merciful and will be merciful to all that bothers you?

And how would you know who is kind, loving and empathetic and not doing it for ulterior motives?

After all, it is God who will judge and not the Protestant Christian.

I don't think you have to worry about it. Are you a believer?

 

[Prestor John]

My biggest issue with the Christian religion, especially the Protestant Christian religion, is the idea that belief is what determines one's ultimate character. Ultimately, the content of your character and your behavior toward others doesn't mean a thing in Protestant Christianity. If you're a kind, loving, empathetic person who doesn't believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then, according to Christian teachings, you're going to burn in Hell. If you're a terrible, nasty, judgmental person who does believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then according to Christian teachings, you're going to Heaven. Of course I don't believe anyone deserves eternal punishment for finite crimes, but that's another issue. The primary point I'm trying to make is that belief should not matter. What matters is how you treat others. A religion that places more importance on belief than action is not one I want to be a part of.

I am a LDS Christian and would agree and believe that that is not a true concept.

I also do not believe in "eternal punishment" being a punishment that lasts forever.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Why does what other people think bother you?

Or is it that they teach that God is merciful and will be merciful to all that bothers you?

And how would you know who is kind, loving and empathetic and not doing it for ulterior motives?

After all, it is God who will judge and not the Protestant Christian.

I don't think you have to worry about it. Are you a believer?

I think I explained pretty well what bothers me about it. I don't understand why belief matters at all. And no, I'm not a believer.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I am a LDS Christian and would agree and believe that that is not a true concept.

I also do not believe in "eternal punishment" being a punishment that lasts forever.

That's good. But you don't represent the majority of Christian beliefs.

 

[Kenny]

I think I explained pretty well what bothers me about it. I don't understand why belief matters at all. And no, I'm not a believer.

How good is good enough for you? And comparing it to what standard?

Not to mention, as I said, it isn't the Protestant Christian who judges but God. I think He knows what He is doing. IMO.

And if it is written," He that loves knows God," how do you know if they interpreted everything correctly?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I believe all people have the capacity to love. We are only labeled with a title, because people see the need to categorize.
However, atheist or not, I believe we are shaped by our experiences in life.

I have met people who practice Hinduism, and there were very hospitable. The same with people with other religious beliefs.
Even a criminal - one who robs people of their money, and might be even violent, might rush to the aid of a child in danger, or help an old lady cross the street, or give up his seat for a pregnant lady.
Why?
I believe because the quality of love is build into every human born from Adam's seed, since as the Bible says, Adam was made in the image of God, whose dominant quality is love.

Even though we show a measure of love though, we don't show it to the degree that God intended it to be shown. In short, the reason being sin, the influence of this wicked world, and its ruler - that figure that works behind the scene - Whom the Bible identifies as Satan the Devil.

In order to acquire that love - not perfectly - but to a greater degree that would allow us to truly display love, I believe we have to get to know the source of love, and live by his standards.
The Bible says:
1 John 4:7, 8 7 Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.

However, it is easy for us to say we have love, but really have no idea what it mean to have love.

I don't believe in the heaven or hell belief taught in Christendom.
The Bible says that God created the earth to be inhabited by righteous mankind forever.
So I believe what is said here:
Psalm 37:9-11 9 For evil men will be done away with, But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth.10 Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. 11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

Obviously, this means that for one (all people - atheist or not) to live forever in God's "plan", they must be humble, and trust in the true God.

With all due respect (and I honestly don't mean to come across as condescending), you didn't answer the question directly, which was a yes-or-no question, so I'll pose it again: Would a non-believer who is kind and moral go to heaven?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

How good is good enough for you? And comparing it to what standard?

Not to mention, as I said, it isn't the Protestant Christian who judges but God. I think He knows what He is doing. IMO.

How good is what? Comparing what to what standard? Sorry, but I don't know what you're asking.

 

[Kenny]

How good is what? Comparing what to what standard? Sorry, but I don't know what you're asking.

You are saying that a "good loving empathetic person will still go to Hell... How do you determine that persons standard?

And what if they interpreted it wrong since it says "He that loves knows God"?

 

[Prestor John]

That's good. But you don't represent the majority of Christian beliefs.

The unfortunate truth. To the detriment of all.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Why should belief form *any* part of your character? BTW, believing in virgin birth, miracles, and a resurrection is not a virtue. It's called being naive and gullible.

Since I've decided religion is a "theological fandom", what one believes is a pretty good short hand for what one believes. In other words, if you think God is not about to clean up His mess, it means you believe authority figures if not yourself shouldn't have to clean up after their messes. Jesus quoted from Jonah and Job, or at least referenced them. The common element to those stories is the failure of dogma, an ego-driven set of rules that give no one comfort. The stories we cherry-pick tell us what is in our hearts. "God" is a mirror or a window into the psyche, even if you don't believe in a literal deity.

such as the sacredness of marriage

So sacred that not only did guys have more than one vagina to enjoy a lot of the time, but Jesus said marriage is irrelevant in heaven anyway.

helping the unprivileged

That's why instead of feeding the poor, you gave your goat to priests so that God could enjoy some nice BBQ.

and generally doing good to others

Unless you wanted their stuff. Israel wouldn't exist without the blatant disregard for this idea.

(Just as many countries wouldn't.)

but can you explain to me why divorcing your wife is wrong according to the naturalistic worldview

Why is it wrong in God's Word? The answer is usually that "they were protecting women who couldn't own businesses". So ... grant them civil rights so they don't need to worry about it. Egyptian women could own things. Why not Jews?

Reason for eternal death is sin and unrighteousness.

Plants die. What did they do?

However, according to what the scriptures say, it seems equally important to have right, or truthful teachings. Without this, one may do the best they know to show love, but fall short.
This is seen from the scriptures that show that one must first hear the message before they can have faith.
So knowledge must be present to enable one to know true love. God is love.

I followed Jesus' advice to judge a tree by its fruit. That's where the problems started.

So would you say that you believe an atheist who is a kind and moral person who simply cannot convince himself that the claims of Christianity are true would go to Heaven? BTW, if this is your view, it's a minority view among Christians.

I would think it fits under the idea that someone who says they won't but does is better than the ones who say they will but won't. I believe atheism is a God-given "checks and balance" system to put the brakes on theistic hubris.

Not to mention, as I said, it isn't the Protestant Christian who judges but God. I think He knows what He is doing. IMO

It isn't God who is going to send people death threats in the mail for having rainbow stickers on their cars, either.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

You are saying that a "good loving empathetic person will still go to Hell... How do you determine that persons standard?

And what if they interpreted it wrong since it says "He that loves knows God"?

I don't have a specific criterion for determining whether a person's actions are "good." But I do know what I would NOT use as a criterion, and that is belief. That is the crux of the issue.

 

[nPeace]

With all due respect (and I honestly don't mean to come across as condescending), you didn't answer the question directly, which was a yes-or-no question, so I'll pose it again: Would a non-believer who is kind and moral go to heaven?

I really can't answer that with a yes or no. The answer to the question is in my post though. Did you read it with any interest, or were you just scanning for a yes or no?

 

[blü 2]

belief should not matter. What matters is how you treat others. A religion that places more importance on belief than action is not one I want to be a part of.

Strongly agree.

As Gautama Buddha put it in the Kalama Sutta, if you live a life of good will, compassion, appreciation and equanimity then ─

If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.
[...]
But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble. [Tr. Thanissaro Bhikkhu]​

Of course, this entails the assumption that if there's an afterlife then its government is just. If not, then all bets are off.

 

[nPeace]

I followed Jesus' advice to judge a tree by its fruit. That's where the problems started.

Fair enough.

 

[Kenny]

It isn't God who is going to send people death threats in the mail for having rainbow stickers on their cars, either.

Maybe He will say "I don't know you" to those who sent the letters?

 

[Cacotopia]

Not necessarily.

It means that the Bible's authors were often unclear about what they meant, so we don't know, and also, that they contradict one another making just about any interpretation as valid or invalid as the next. Pick the scriptures you like, interpret them as you choose, and disregard whatever other scriptures contradict that position.



Add reason, skepticism, and empiricism to the Golden Rule, and you have Secular Humanism. Christianity has no claim to the Golden Rule. What defines a Christian is his or her belief that there is a certain specific god that once roamed the earth, that we have an immortal soul, and that that god will salvage or condemn thise immortal souls to paradise or perdition according to belief. This god want a chorus of praisers, and will reward those willing to do so by allowing them to do so for eternity, the remainder being persecuted - kind of like a certain president.

I would say that would be an issue if you wrote a book with multiple authors that didn't know each other over several hundred years.

 

[Jollybear]

All you have to do is look at the first 4 of the 10 commandments... again... that is THE FIRST 4, meaning the top ones, the first, assumedly the "most important" to see how easily these "stupid Christians" (your words, not mine) have been so easily duped:

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

ALL of the first 4 commandments have everything to do with belief... and NOTHING to do with how you treat your fellow man. It's not until you get to the fifth and it starts talking about honoring your mother and father do we get to prescription for human-to-human interaction.

Now, you tell me... where does that list position belief with respect to treatment of your fellow man?

Actually, if your employer could get away with not giving you a day off, that would play a part in how your treated by another human.