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What I Don't Like About Christianity

Not necessarily.

It means that the Bible's authors were often unclear about what they meant, so we don't know, and also, that they contradict one another making just about any interpretation as valid or invalid as the next. Pick the scriptures you like, interpret them as you choose, and disregard whatever other scriptures contradict that position.



Add reason, skepticism, and empiricism to the Golden Rule, and you have Secular Humanism. Christianity has no claim to the Golden Rule. What defines a Christian is his or her belief that there is a certain specific god that once roamed the earth, that we each have an immortal soul, and that that god will salvage or condemn those immortal souls to paradise or perdition according to its belief. This god wants a chorus of praisers to proclaim its greatness forever, and will reward those willing to do so by allowing them to do so for eternity, the remainder being persecuted - kind of like a certain president.

Hmmm, i would not fully agree there.

Yea, granted, some scriptures are unclear, but some are clear. As for contradictions, i just think theres misinterpretation. I think scripture is in harmony, like different instruments playing a different sound, but the same tune.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Maybe He will say "I don't know you" to those who sent the letters?
Send them to heaven and have nothing but drag shows playing for the rest of eternity. :)

While I believe in heaven and hell, I don't see the necessity for hell, because heaven operates in a way that would be absolute hell for evil people. :)
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Actually, if your employer could get away with not giving you a day off, that would play a part in how your treated by another human.
I absolutely love that this is all you could come back with. A very small caveat that exposes the 4th commandment as having some shred of human-to-human meaning through a loop-hole or special condition. Fine. Strike the 4th commandment from the list. You're still dealing with the top 3 being all about God and belief.

And if you want to say that the "Old Testament" was replaced by the New, fine... just look at Jesus' own words... The Beatitudes. Top 4:
  • Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
  • Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted.
  • Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth.
  • Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled.
Once again... no mention of human-to-human interactions until (sort of) the 5th:
  • Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy.
And then it still wavers back and forth after that, with more mentions of spiritual health over care for your fellow man. The spiritual world is apparently stuck on itself quite heavily. The simple fact is, if God really exists and He's behind the crafting of the list of commandments, God cares very much more about His own feelings than He does about human beings. There's really no other way to rationally characterize it. God literally "makes the rules" - supposedly for the entire universe - and some of the very top things He can think to impart to people for living a "good life" involve worshiping and directing attention to Him above all else? Why? Because God has a god-complex, that's why. It isn't a "this is really the best thing for you" type of thing... the first 3 commandments and the fact that He is "all powerful" and could craft the rules of the universe any way He wished make it very much a "this is the best thing for ME" type of scenario. In my opinion He's depicted as arrogant, insecure, and very much caught up in Himself - very often to the detriment of all those around Him.
 
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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think the OP should have been titled: "What I don't like about Christians"

That's a different topic. I like most Christians, but find little of value and much to be avoided in Christianity.

Interesting thing is, Jesus and Bible tells it is actually about righteousness, not much about belief:

As with many other topics, one can find scripture to support contradictory positions. The Bible says that nobody is righteous: "As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one" - Romans 3:10

Also, in one part, the bible says that man is saved by faith, not works ("For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works." - Ephesians 2:8-9) and in another, the exact opposite ("Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." - James 2:24)

As for contradictions, i just think theres misinterpretation. I think scripture is in harmony, like different instruments playing a different sound, but the same tune.

See above. There are hundreds more contradictions. Here's another pair: "I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." - Leviticus 17:11 and "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." - Hebrews 1

is it that they teach that God is merciful and will be merciful to all that bothers you?

That's not what is taught. What is taught is that if one dies a sinner, one will be cast into the lake of fire. That's not mercy.

Would a non-believer who is kind and moral go to heaven?

I really can't answer that with a yes or no.

I can. The answer is no. The central doctrine of Christianity is that man is born sinful with an eternal soul that needs the cleansing blood of Christ to be redeemed and saved from perdition, and that this is achieved only through faith that Christ is God. What does this mean to you? : "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

You are saying that a "good loving empathetic person will still go to Hell

That's the message from Christianity. That's in part what is the OP is condemning. Christianity tells us that our worth is defined only in terms of our worth to God. Those who please Him will be culled from those who don't, the former receiving eternal reward and the latter eternal damnation. And what criterion does God employ to determine which is which? The belief that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the grave to sit at the right hand of the Father for eternity. At Judgment Day, all your love and empathy aount to nothing if you didn't believe the above.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
My biggest issue with the Christian religion, especially the Protestant Christian religion, is the idea that belief is what determines one's ultimate character. Ultimately, the content of your character and your behavior toward others doesn't mean a thing in Protestant Christianity. If you're a kind, loving, empathetic person who doesn't believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then, according to Christian teachings, you're going to burn in Hell. If you're a terrible, nasty, judgmental person who does believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then according to Christian teachings, you're going to Heaven. Of course I don't believe anyone deserves eternal punishment for finite crimes, but that's another issue. The primary point I'm trying to make is that belief should not matter. What matters is how you treat others. A religion that places more importance on belief than action is not one I want to be a part of.

You misrepresent what I believe here.

1) Morally PERFECT people, not "really good" people, get to live in a perfect utopia, since the imperfect ruin utopia

2) Character is a part of free will, some Christians have great character, some don't

3) Belief doesn't determine character for Christians OR non-Christians, character is action-based, per free will

4) As you wrote, no one determines eternal punishment for finite crimes, however, shoot the President and you live forever in prison until you die, same for crimes against God, except you don't die
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I agree.

However i would also venture to say that these very "christians" are not interpreting the bible correctly.

I believe in the bible. But i dont helieve hell is torture FOREVER.

I believe God requires good, kind charecter, per the bibles own words.

The bible even teaches that if you dont understand Jesus death/ resurrection, but live by your concience, God will accept you.

So, these christians are stupid.

I don’t like Christians because even though they claim to have personal relationships with Jesus, they come to opposite conclusions about basic theology and call each other stupid, or heretic, or not understanding the Bible, hebrew or whatever exegesis and complicated BS (Biblical Scholarship)

I wonder: what do you talk about during these personal sessions? The weather?

Could you please ask Him about hell and the age of the earth for a change, so that we have that settled at least? Please. You are a moving target right now. :)

Ciao

- viole
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
That's not what is taught. What is taught is that if one dies a sinner, one will be cast into the lake of fire. That's not mercy.

That is your interpretation. It isn't exactly what is taught.

What is taught is "Before you is life and death... choose life". Like someone saying "Before you are no drugs and drugs... choose no drugs".

God gives mercy... if you don't want it the gift, He can't force you to take it.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
My biggest issue with the Christian religion, especially the Protestant Christian religion, is the idea that belief is what determines one's ultimate character. Ultimately, the content of your character and your behavior toward others doesn't mean a thing in Protestant Christianity. If you're a kind, loving, empathetic person who doesn't believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then, according to Christian teachings, you're going to burn in Hell. If you're a terrible, nasty, judgmental person who does believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then according to Christian teachings, you're going to Heaven. Of course I don't believe anyone deserves eternal punishment for finite crimes, but that's another issue. The primary point I'm trying to make is that belief should not matter. What matters is how you treat others. A religion that places more importance on belief than action is not one I want to be a part of.

I believe you are mistaken. Belief precedes action. When I did jail ministry I found that the miscreants didn't believe in doing what is right and surprise surprise they didn't do what is right.

I believe the very first step in being saved is to repent ones sins. A person who is claiming his actions are fine and dandy is holding on to his sin as a good thing. As you thin so will you be. If you think sin is ok then you will sin. If you think sin is not ok then you will do whatever needs to be done to avoid sin. That is where salvation comes in. Since we have a natural tendency to sin whether we want to or not then we need Jesus to save us from our sin.

I believe you are in error neither being kind etc nor belief in those things will keep you out of Hell.

I believe there is only one thing that can keep a person out of hell and that is to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. That is an act not a belief.

I believe whoever teaches that is mistaken. Most people do not go to Heaven not because of what they believe but because of what they want. Christians should be looking to start eternal life in the Kingdom of God with the absence of the ability to do evil when Jesus returns.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I agree.

However i would also venture to say that these very "christians" are not interpreting the bible correctly.

I believe in the bible. But i dont helieve hell is torture FOREVER.

I believe God requires good, kind charecter, per the bibles own words.

The bible even teaches that if you dont understand Jesus death/ resurrection, but live by your concience, God will accept you.

So, these christians are stupid.

I believe this is not so because the conscience has just as many evil tendencies as the flesh.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I believe you are mistaken. Belief precedes action. When I did jail ministry I found that the miscreants didn't believe in doing what is right and surprise surprise they didn't do what is right.

I believe the very first step in being saved is to repent ones sins. A person who is claiming his actions are fine and dandy is holding on to his sin as a good thing. As you thin so will you be. If you think sin is ok then you will sin. If you think sin is not ok then you will do whatever needs to be done to avoid sin. That is where salvation comes in. Since we have a natural tendency to sin whether we want to or not then we need Jesus to save us from our sin.

I believe you are in error neither being kind etc nor belief in those things will keep you out of Hell.

I believe there is only one thing that can keep a person out of hell and that is to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. That is an act not a belief.

I believe whoever teaches that is mistaken. Most people do not go to Heaven not because of what they believe but because of what they want. Christians should be looking to start eternal life in the Kingdom of God with the absence of the ability to do evil when Jesus returns.

You like typing in fancy colors, huh? Anyway, why do someone's opinions about a guy who lived 2000 years ago matter? And in order to "receive" Jesus as you state, one must believe he was some supernatural figure. Many of us can't bring ourselves to believe that, because of the lack of evidence to support it. And of course the guys in the jails were less likely to be good people than the rest of the population, which is why they were in jails lol. How is that relevant?
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
You misrepresent what I believe here.

1) Morally PERFECT people, not "really good" people, get to live in a perfect utopia, since the imperfect ruin utopia

2) Character is a part of free will, some Christians have great character, some don't

3) Belief doesn't determine character for Christians OR non-Christians, character is action-based, per free will

4) As you wrote, no one determines eternal punishment for finite crimes, however, shoot the President and you live forever in prison until you die, same for crimes against God, except you don't die

Your logic with regard to point 1) is wrong, because you're not considering the opposite scenario. If one act of sin "ruins" utopia, or Heaven, then it would also follow that one righteous act would "ruin" Hell. How can Hell be a place of pure evil if people who have performed righteous actions are allowed to be there? You see, it goes both ways. This idea that one sin damns a person is as ridiculous as the idea that one righteous act means that they deserve eternal utopia. In reality, people are not purely good or purely evil. They are a mixture of both, and that is quite obvious. This is one thing the Christian philosophy gets wrong.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I can. The answer is no. The central doctrine of Christianity is that man is born sinful with an eternal soul that needs the cleansing blood of Christ to be redeemed and saved from perdition, and that this is achieved only through faith that Christ is God. What does this mean to you? : "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6
Actually, you are right. Only those born again go to heaven.
Apparently I was looking at the question more as an inconclusive hypothetical, where I could not know the outcome.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
....As with many other topics, one can find scripture to support contradictory positions. The Bible says that nobody is righteous: "As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one" - Romans 3:10

Also, in one part, the bible says that man is saved by faith, not works ("For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works." - Ephesians 2:8-9) and in another, the exact opposite ("Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." - James 2:24)
...

Firstly, faith (loyalty) to God is result of righteousness. Righteousness is like wisdom of the just, which means person has right understanding that is the reason why person wants to be loyal to God.

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4 (Galatians 3:11)

Works also are the result of person being righteous. If there are not the “fruits”, person is not righteous. As it is said, by fruits you will know is the “tree” good or bad.


By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.

Matt. 7:16-20

So, faith, righteousness and works are all part of the whole truth.

I think Romans 3:10 is misunderstood, if people think no one has ever been counted righteous, because according to the Bible, many have been counted righteous. But if no one is righteous, no one will get eternal life, if Bible is the truth.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Like someone saying "Before you are no drugs and drugs... choose no drugs".
So people choose not to do drugs that their doctor prescribed and they die. :p

Actually, you are right. Only those born again go to heaven.
Actually, it is taught that. It is not objectively accurate.

Also, perhaps plants are just organisms that are not self-aware and feeling beings.
But if death results from sin, and plants don't have the brains to sin, why do they die?
 

iam1me

Active Member
My biggest issue with the Christian religion, especially the Protestant Christian religion, is the idea that belief is what determines one's ultimate character. Ultimately, the content of your character and your behavior toward others doesn't mean a thing in Protestant Christianity. If you're a kind, loving, empathetic person who doesn't believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then, according to Christian teachings, you're going to burn in Hell. If you're a terrible, nasty, judgmental person who does believe in Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, then according to Christian teachings, you're going to Heaven. Of course I don't believe anyone deserves eternal punishment for finite crimes, but that's another issue. The primary point I'm trying to make is that belief should not matter. What matters is how you treat others. A religion that places more importance on belief than action is not one I want to be a part of.

Speaking as a Christian, I completely agree with your critique. In fact, such positions - which are rampant among Protestants - are not supported by the scriptures at all. There is no list of beliefs in scripture that says "assent to this list of beliefs and you will be saved." Worse yet, the Trinity is often included in such lists - but most Christians don't even claim to understand the Trinity. They consider it a mystery. So this list of doctrines includes things that you don't even need to understand - you just need to blindly assent!!!!

These same Christians reject the true basis for the Judgement - our deeds. As you say - anyone who lives a good life, doing good deeds, should be rewarded - not condemned. This is precisely what the scriptures teach - but you won't hear it taught at most churches.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The simple fact is, if God really exists and He's behind the crafting of the list of commandments, God cares very much more about His own feelings than He does about human beings. There's really no other way to rationally characterize it.
WOW! That was the greatest cherry picking of scriptures I have ever seen... my congratulations on your accomplishment.
 
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