What I Don't Like About Christianity

[Kenny]

That's the message from Christianity. That's in part what is the OP is condemning. Christianity tells us that our worth is defined only in terms of our worth to God. Those who please Him will be culled from those who don't, the former receiving eternal reward and the latter eternal damnation. And what criterion does God employ to determine which is which? The belief that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the grave to sit at the right hand of the Father for eternity. At Judgment Day, all your love and empathy aount to nothing if you didn't believe the above.

i'm sure some do... but that isn't the message.

 

[Kenny]

I don’t like Christians because even though they claim to have personal relationships with Jesus, they come to opposite conclusions about basic theology and call each other stupid, or heretic, or not understanding the Bible, hebrew or whatever exegesis and complicated BS (Biblical Scholarship)


Ciao

- viole

hmmmm... nope.

adios

 

[Audie]

Hmmm, i would not fully agree there.

Yea, granted, some scriptures are unclear, but some are clear. As for contradictions, i just think theres misinterpretation. I think scripture is in harmony, like different instruments playing a different sound, but the same tune.

Is this one clear?

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good

Two important things here that I notice.

One is that it says the domestic animals were created
as domestics along with wild cattle

It also says that all of it is good.

There is a poster who maintains-tho he has
now exited the discussion- that it says god created, byt
man bred the domestic animals from the creation.

So what does it say? Is it clear?

What in the bible is?

And of course, lots of people who say they "hate"
various of the creatures that god said are good.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

WOW! That was the greatest cherry picking of scriptures I have ever seen... my congratulations on your accomplishment.

We're talking about THE TOP COMMANDMENTS here. Cherry picking? Come on man... please. Based on the first 3/4 commandments, God makes it absolutely clear that His feelings are more important than how you treat your fellow man. By all means... if you see it differently, make your case.

Sure, The Bible has some things to say about how you treat your fellow man... but it is definitely more of an afterthought to the focus on how you'd better "treat" God. Do you know how many times I have been told that God matters above all by people? People have literally told me that if it came time to choose between their relationship with their husband/wife/kids, and their relationship with God, that God always wins, hands down. That has got to be one of the dumbest sentiments I have ever heard expressed - I am being 100% serious. The moment someone says something like that, I write them off as an irrational human being who has got their priorities twisted so far up their butt that they almost aren't worth time/space/energy.

This is the basic gist of The Bible, without all the fancy prose and puffed up romanticism:
So sayeth God: "Staying on my good side is the only way to insure that I won't judge you, and judge you harshly. The people around you are somewhat important, but in the end, all eyes better be on me. Capiche?"

Just think if a friend of yours came to you and told you that they were going to have to start judging you, maybe shun you, possibly hurt you if you didn't pay them the most important of your attentions. How would that make you feel about that "friend"? Now replace your "friend" in that scenario with a total stranger, who insists they only have concern over your welfare when they tell you that you had better really start showing them a lot of affection and adoration, or they are going to have to do something drastic to you or your life. Honestly... who in their right mind says "You got it, boss." to someone pedaling something like that?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Your logic with regard to point 1) is wrong, because you're not considering the opposite scenario. If one act of sin "ruins" utopia, or Heaven, then it would also follow that one righteous act would "ruin" Hell. How can Hell be a place of pure evil if people who have performed righteous actions are allowed to be there? You see, it goes both ways. This idea that one sin damns a person is as ridiculous as the idea that one righteous act means that they deserve eternal utopia. In reality, people are not purely good or purely evil. They are a mixture of both, and that is quite obvious. This is one thing the Christian philosophy gets wrong.

People in Hell don't live societally to interact with others. Think of it more like solitary confinement. People in Heaven have relationships that are secured.

And I never said "one sin damns a person", since I know no one, atheist or Christian, who has sinned once. Coveting alone would mean a typical adult has sinned thousands of times.

What I DO agree with you on is where you wrote "In reality, people are not purely good or purely evil. They are a mixture of both, and that is quite obvious." That is TRUE, and IS in the Christian worldview.

I, like you, am Jekyll AND Hyde. I do good sometimes, sin sometimes, so I look forward to being TRANSFORMED, enabled to live in a utopia.

 

[Audie]

What hell is really like-

new yorker hell cartoons - Google Search

 

[Kenny]

We're talking about THE TOP COMMANDMENTS here. Cherry picking? Come on man... please. Based on the first 3/4 commandments, God makes it absolutely clear that His feelings are more important than how you treat your fellow man. By all means... if you see it differently, make your case.

Yup! Cherry Picking!

THE TOP COMMANDMENTS are spoken of specifically and not cherry picked.

Matt 22:
35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Sounds like the well being of other people is right there at the top and it SPECIFICALLY say the TOP COMMANDMENTS. The man asked for only one but Jesus added the second as if to say "Just as important as the first".

Your list didn't say "the top commandments".

Case presented.

 

[Audie]

We have a saying to the effect that

A child raised with love will know how to love others.
All that is needed is to spread this virtue to the world.

 

[Audie]

Yup! Cherry Picking!

Sounds like the well being of other people is right there at the top and it SPECIFICALLY say the TOP COMMANDMENTS. The man asked for only one but Jesus added the second as if to say "Just as important as the first".

Your list didn't say "the top commandments".

Case presented.

Yup! Semantic games.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Yup! Cherry Picking!

THE TOP COMMANDMENTS are spoken of specifically and not cherry picked.

Matt 22:
35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Sounds like the well being of other people is right there at the top and it SPECIFICALLY say the TOP COMMANDMENTS. The man asked for only one but Jesus added the second as if to say "Just as important as the first".

Your list didn't say "the top commandments".

Case presented.

And I STILL have you! Ha!

37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

There it is, plain as day. MY proof. God (and Jesus) care more about human beings pointing attention and adoration their way than they do about how you treat your fellow man. It is STILL THE TOP. Even Jesus himself says so. Why is this so hard to grasp? Because it is as ash-backward as it seems?! Why yes... yes I do believe that is it.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

People in Hell don't live societally to interact with others. Think of it more like solitary confinement. People in Heaven have relationships that are secured.

And I never said "one sin damns a person", since I know no one, atheist or Christian, who has sinned once. Coveting alone would mean a typical adult has sinned thousands of times.

What I DO agree with you on is where you wrote "In reality, people are not purely good or purely evil. They are a mixture of both, and that is quite obvious." That is TRUE, and IS in the Christian worldview.

I, like you, am Jekyll AND Hyde. I do good sometimes, sin sometimes, so I look forward to being TRANSFORMED, enabled to live in a utopia.

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I woudn't want to spend an eternity with a god that tortures people forever just because they had mistaken beliefs. I wouldn't want to bounce around the clouds with a cosmic sadist whose core message for humanity could be summarized in the sentence "Love your enemies, while I roast mine in Hell."

 

[Kenny]

And I STILL have you! Ha!




There it is, plain as day. MY proof. God (and Jesus) care more about human beings pointing attention and adoration their way than they do about how you treat your fellow man. It is STILL THE TOP. Even Jesus himself says so. Why is this so hard to grasp? Because it is as ash-backward as it seems?! Why yes... yes I do believe that is it.

If you want to make it that... but there it is in black and white

And the second is like it:

Just like it After all..,. FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD... sounds like he was more interested in people than Himself

So... not only did you cherry pick, but now proven wrong

CASE DISMISSED

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

4) As you wrote, no one determines eternal punishment for finite crimes, however, shoot the President and you live forever in prison until you die, same for crimes against God, except you don't die

If you don't ever die, then that would be an eternal punishment.

 

[Audie]

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I woudn't want to spend an eternity with a god that tortures people forever just because they had mistaken beliefs. I wouldn't want to bounce around the clouds with a cosmic sadist whose core message for humanity could be summarized in the sentence "Love your enemies, while I roast mine in Hell."

They give you a injection to cure you of survivor guilt

 

[Audie]

If you want to make it that... but there it is in black and white



Just like it After all..,. FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD... sounds like he was more interested in people than Himself

So... not only did you cherry pick, but now proven wrong

CASE DISMISSED

For I so loved my kitty that I gave her some
food.

Proves what?

 

[Kenny]

For I so loved my kitty that I gave her some
food.

Proves what?

that you do care for your kitty, you are interested in her well being, that it isn't just about you. An expression of love.

 

[Audie]

that you do care for your kitty, you are interested in her well being, that it isn't just about you. An expression of love.

sure.. but not more than I am in my own.

just pointing to an unwarranted conclusion, even
if one considers this god to be real

sounds like he was more interested in people than Himself

 

[Kenny]

sure.. but not more than I am in my own.

just pointing to an unwarranted conclusion, even
if one considers this god to be real

sounds like he was more interested in people than Himself

Actually, no greater love has a man than that he give his life for another (as it is written and I subscribe too). And it also said, "If He didn't withhold His only begotten son, how much more would He freely give us all things.

So, it is a warranted conclusion in my book. (thought it doesn't have to be in yours)

 

[Audie]

Actually, no greater love has a man than that he give his life for another (as it is written and I subscribe too). And it also said, "If He didn't withhold His only begotten son, how much more would He freely give us all things.

So, it is a warranted conclusion in my book. (thought it doesn't have to be in yours)

No greater love hath a man etc, is a well known
thing from all cultures.

"God", whether it exists or not, is not "man".

Temporarily spinning off a tiny bit of himself,
in order to let someone "kill" it, as a payment
to himself for when others break his own
rules is kinda weird.

But it does not remotely show that this
"god" loves others more than it does itself.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

If you want to make it that... but there it is in black and white



Just like it After all..,. FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD... sounds like he was more interested in people than Himself

So... not only did you cherry pick, but now proven wrong

CASE DISMISSED

God "so loving the world" does not preclude His also demanding that people put more of their care/love toward Him than toward their fellow man. My statements still stand as FACT. According to The Bible, God and Jesus both say that loving Him is more important than care for your fellow man. Period.

You know what I noticed? I noticed that you didn't reply at all to my idea about people stating that they would choose God day-in, day-out over any of their family members. I believe I know why you didn't reply - likely because you know it is biblical that it is something that should be done, however you can't back that up with any sufficiently convincing argument that doesn't make you sound callous and equate your stance with something morally questionable. And in fact, I think you also find it a morally questionable stance, but are afraid to say so because it goes against these "TOP" tenets of your faith.

Even if you don't reply (which I highly advise against if you don't want to start saying things that put your opinions in a bad light), just think on this. Which of the two, following statements do you believe might make a child feel more confident in their parent's love when made directly to said child?

1. I love you son, however if somehow it ever came down to my making a choice between you and God, I would have to choose God.
2. Son, I love you. So much so, that even if God Himself were to ask me to choose between you and Him, I'd laugh in His face so confidently he'd pee his gown.

I'll let you take a guess as to which one of those two I'd be telling my sons.