What does it mean to 'desire'?

[cardero]

Sunstone writes: But I'm confused by this talk of "materialistic". Is there really any moral difference between materialistic desire and non-materialistic desire? Is there any moral difference between a desire for money (materialistic) and a desire for fame (non-materialistic)?

I do not think that GOD has anything (morally or immorally) against materialistic desires it is just that it really isn't necessary to enJOY life. The basics (clothes, food, shelter) makes us keep things simple.

Like Hope mentioned there are many people who in their claim to fame have had trouble dealing not only with their fame but with their materialistic lives. If you can keep it in perspective and manage it realistically materialistic values do not have to rule/engulf your life.

 

[Sunstone]

I do not think that GOD has anything (morally or immorally) against materialistic desires it is just that it really isn't necessary to enJOY life. The basics (clothes, food, shelter) makes us keep things simple.

Like Hope mentioned there are many people who in their claim to fame have had trouble dealing not only with their fame but with their materialistic lives. If you can keep it in perspective and manage it realistically materialistic values do not have to rule/engulf your life.

Thanks for the clarification re material and non-material objects of desire.

When you speak of "keeping things simple", I think you hint at an interesting conflict: We live in a consumer society that seems mostly at odds with "keeping things simple". Every day, we are bombarded with advertising encouraging us to desire more and more. What do you think of our consumer society, and do you see it as a major hurdle to "keeping things simple"?

 

[Hope]

Definitely! It seems the more options there are, the more we want, and the less we are satisfied with what we truly need. It saddens me how consumeristic our western culture has become. I think if we were put in the shoes of people from third-world countries, it would help open our eyes to how much we truly have, and how much of what we have we really don't need.

 

[Sunstone]

Definitely! It seems the more options there are, the more we want, and the less we are satisfied with what we truly need. It saddens me how consumeristic our western culture has become. I think if we were put in the shoes of people from third-world countries, it would help open our eyes to how much we truly have, and how much of what we have we really don't need.

I think our consumerist culture is spreading to the third world. Take a look at China and India!

 

[cardero]

Sunstone writes: We live in a consumer society that seems mostly at odds with "keeping things simple".



We also live in a society that seems to encourage too much opportunity. I do not think we need to have 42 different laundry detergents to choose from. Formulate the best detergent and I will be happy to buy that. Also does it really matter if we have 726 car models to choose from? Just make a few cars that drive well, are efficient on gas and last a long time.



Sunstone writes: Every day, we are bombarded with advertising encouraging us to desire more and more. What do you think of our consumer society, and do you see it as a major hurdle to "keeping things simple"?



I think it is more of a decision to work “within our means”. Advertisers can promote/bombard/advertise all they want if I cannot afford it I cannot obtain it. Some people lose focus of this and that is usually where the trouble begins. Even for people who are “better off” or are considered wealthy at one point look around their lives and wonder “what do I need with all this stuff”.



By the way sunstone I like your signature.

 

[Sunstone]

By the way sunstone I like your signature.

Thank you. I'll repeat it here in case I change it: "There is no god higher than truth." -- Mahatama Ghandi

Do you see a conflict between consumerism and sprituality?

 

[Ceridwen018]

We all know what your plans would be: you'd throw that knight to the ground and ride off with the horse.

Maybe not throw...I don't want to hurt him--I need someone to muck the stalls!

Another horsewoman! That's fabulous, Hope!

We also live in a society that seems to encourage too much opportunity. I do not think we need to have 42 different laundry detergents to choose from. Formulate the best detergent and I will be happy to buy that. Also does it really matter if we have 726 car models to choose from? Just make a few cars that drive well, are efficient on gas and last a long time.

We may not need it, but why not?

 

[cardero]

Sunstone writes: Do you see a conflict between consumerism and sprituality?

I see many conflicts with spirituality

Politics and spirituality

Biblical doctrine and spirituality

Law and spirituality

TRUTH and spirituality-which is why I like your signature

As far as consumerism and spirituality and think anytime you lean your attention towards the materialistic (physical) you take a little away from the spiritual. You can get it (spirituality) back you just have to manage your perspective.

 

[cardero]

Ceridwen018 writes: We may not need it, but why not?

I am all for creative consumerism and independent businesses. I believe somewhere, some day, someone will always have something useful or stylish to offer somebody else but during social economic crunches people cannot afford “nice things” and nobody feels this effect more than businesses.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Call me crazy folks, but I'd take this materialistic society over a third world country any day.

 

[Hope]

Wouldn't we all?

My point is not that we should all live in poverty; my point is how one's perspective can change if one witnesses personally how so many in the world actually live.

 

[Sunstone]

Call me crazy folks, but I'd take this materialistic society over a third world country any day.

If those are the only two choices, then I'm right there with you. But I also wonder whether, as a practical matter, we can sustain our current standard of living? Do you think we can, Mr. Spinkles?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I think we can, but I'm not sure. What do you think?

And even if we can't, what then? Should we lower our standard of living now so that in the future, when our standard of living is lowered forcibly, it won't be as big a shock?

 

[Sunstone]

I don't know for sure. I've been told (as no doubt you have too) that our use of the world's resources is outstripping the ability of nature to replenish them. If so, that doesn't bode well for maintaining or increasing our standard of living.

Overall, I'm slightly more optimistic than I am pessimistic that even if it is true we are headed for a resources crunch, we can somehow deal with it without reverting to the Middle Ages. I think people are pretty resourceful, inventive, and resiliant. But like I said, I don't really know for sure.

One thing I am pretty certain about, though, is this: Our society is far superior to anything that's gone before, despite all the problems we have (and what society doesn't have problems?) I wouldn't give up modern medicine for anything, to name just one benefit of living in this time and place. It would be a shame to loose the progress we've made.

 

[Raphael]

Much of what was said is based on the delusion that the human race will be here forever on planet earth. This somehow runs contrary to the teachings on the Last Judgement.

 

[Sunstone]

Much of what was said is based on the delusion that the human race will be here forever on planet earth. This somehow runs contrary to the teachings on the Last Judgement.

Are you asserting the belief that we can act irresponsibly towards the environment because the world is going to end anyways (i.e. via the Last Judgement)?

 

[Hope]

Much of what was said is based on the delusion that the human race will be here forever on planet earth. This somehow runs contrary to the teachings on the Last Judgement.

Even if the world is destroyed eventually, that doesn't give us excuse to trash it while we are here. I agree with Sunstone. As a Christian, part of my responsibility is to be a good steward of the earth. It would be dishonoring to God to not care about His creation.

 

[huajiro]

From another thread, I got an idea for something to throw out there for discussion. Why do we have desires? Where do they come from? How does one define 'desire'? Can God desire? Are desires good, or bad? Or both? If one has no desires, is that good or bad? CAN one have no desires? I'd really like to hear some thoughts on this!

Desire for me invokes an image of physical want.

 

[chinu]

Why do we have desires?
Where do they come from? How does one define 'desire'? Can God desire? Are desires good, or bad? Or both? If one has no desires, is that good or bad? CAN one have no desires? I'd really like to hear some thoughts on this!

In the beganing when we all were one with God, we were desireless, Our first desire aparted us from God, Our first desire was to create an another world away from God, and from that time we are following our own desires one after the another.

But.. once we returned back, no desire will remain thereafter, or in other words this returning back is our last desire.

 

[jtartar]

From another thread, I got an idea for something to throw out there for discussion. Why do we have desires? Where do they come from? How does one define 'desire'? Can God desire? Are desires good, or bad? Or both? If one has no desires, is that good or bad? CAN one have no desires? I'd really like to hear some thoughts on this!

Hope,
In several places in the Bible the translators have rendered the word desire, when a better translation would have put lust., which would then allow people to understand that desire is not wrong, as all people have desires, Gal 5:16,17, Rom 7:8.
There is definitely nothing wrong with desires, but lust and covetiousness are bad, which are wrong feelings, because of a person not rejecting the feeling, and allowing it to become too strong.