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Featured What does it actually mean to be saved in Christianity?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Conscious thoughts, Jun 2, 2021.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    But John 1.12 does not mean the same thing as what you said before.....

    In Christianity salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus. ( see Ephesians 2:8-9). It is not something a Christian does or earns.

    because John 1.12 says nothing about being saved by grace.
     
  2. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    The 'inward change 'happens the moment you recieve the Holy Spirit . So the moment your saved . ' saved from the Judgement to come .
     
  3. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    In order for their to be an inward change prior to being saved ,this would fall under the category of ' religion ' in my other op . Other wise known as ' works righteousness religion ' . Rather the inward change ( regeneration/ born again ) Happens at the receiving of the Holy spirit , and the receiving of Jesus .
     
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  4. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Because of the forgivness and saving from Jesus?
    I can understand your P.O.V but i see it a little different my self, something is very natural since we believe in different teachings :)
     
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  5. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    believe. And remember there is no giving of
    If you stopped at Moses you wouldn't have a clue about Jesus . You've decided to stop in like manner with the four Gospels . As if the bible stops with the gospel of John . Which is rich ,considering your taking your information from outside sources.
     
  6. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    What happens is kinda like an ice cube in a tray when its separated from the the sides of the tray . When it 'pops 'or melts , It remains inside , but 'separated 'from the tray .
    This verse explains:
    Colossians chapter 2
    11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

    12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    Baptism here ,meaning being immersed ( baptised ) not with water ( as that's the figure of the actual occurrence ) But immersed into Christ , by the Holy spirit . Then the analogy above happens to our Spirit . Our spirit is ' separated ' ( From the ice cube tray , but still inside , so as the spirit is unattached ,so to speak , We are still residing in our flesh, our bodies. The body / flesh is redeemed upon Christ's return for the saints) ,redeemed, resurrected . This is what is referred to as being ' born again ' , ' regenerated ' . This is something God does to you immediately upon believing the Gospel.
    1 cor 1.21
    21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    John 1 .12
    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
     
  7. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Thank you @Barry Johnson Honestly this is the best explenation i have heard from someone who is Christian :)
     
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  8. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    And Just to add . Because this operation, which is called the spiritual circumcision ( As apposed to the physical circumcision) has taken place ,it cannot not be undone , which I'm very relieved about . But it means that a person who this has not happened to ,does not have the option of yielding to the Holy Spirit ,or to 'walk in the Spirit . When you see Christians, not exactly being ,well Christians it means they are yielding to flesh. Because a Saved person now has two options as opposed to one option before , the struggle is to be aware which one is dominating . The flesh or the Spirit . This struggle will be there, until he goes to be with the Lord ,and recieves the glorified body . Then there will be no longer the struggle of the flesh. Essentially, what a lot of religions are trying to do is change the flesh and the spirit in some sense . Which is impossible without , being ' born again ' the way in which i mentioned, as described with the analogy of the ice cubes . We need to be ' popped ' , ' separated ' from the tray ( in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ
    Only by ONE way . Through the prerequisite, I explained before . 1cor 1.21
     
  9. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Similarly, since you stopped with the four Gospels you don't have a clue about Baha'u'llah, which is the Word of God made manifest.
     
  11. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Oh snap.....:oops:
     
  12. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Yes I do not , I've read the bible several times and its never entered my head . Nor any other Christian who has ever read the bible. I wonder why ?
     
  13. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Other than the anti christ ( As john said there are many ) and false spirits ( again many, Where on earth does it say Gate and Mirza Husayn will come in the 1800,s and teach completely contrary to what Jesus taught and the subsequent entire NT following the 4 gospels. Heck how do you refute Joseph Smith being a ' prophet ' of God also ? And you have an issue with Paul ? lol
     
  14. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13Which were born , not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    14¶And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    15¶John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

    16¶And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

    17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
     
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  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not wonder why but it is not because of what is in the Bible.
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    The Bible does not say it will be contrary and it is not contrary. Some of it is just new and different, but that is to be expected because if it was exactly the same as the NT there would be no reason for God to send another Messenger.

    It does say that He will come.... All throughout the OT, whenever the end times Messiah is mentioned, it is referring to Baha'u'llah, and in the NT Jesus said He would send the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth, to complete the work He left unfinished. Jesus was a Comforter, Baha'u'llah was another Comforter.

    John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

    John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    I do not believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God but rather he was a seer. I don't have an issue with Paul, unless he contradicts what Jesus said. Anyone should have an issue with that if they care about Jesus.
     
  17. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    I think your very niave, with respect. With the way your handling the bible , anything goes. Anyone can be anyone . A prophet, a messiah , the comforter . Literally you cannot refute anyone claiming to be the next comforter . " I'm Spartacus !"
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, not at all. Not anyone can be the Messiah and the Comforter. Only the one who fulfilled the Bible prophecies can be Him. Many of those prophecies and exactly how that were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah are delineated in the book entitled Thief in the Night by William Sears for people who really want to know the truth.
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, when Jesus referred to eternal life, He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God. The soul is eternal, the physical body perishes. That is why Jesus said: John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life

    All the verses below refer to eternal life of the soul, not life of the physical body.

    John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


    All souls will continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies and they will get a new body, a spiritual body, as described in 1 Corinthians 15:40-54, but not all souls will have eternal life (everlasting life). Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.

    “The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2Some Answered Questions, p. 223

    The souls of people who are distant from God will not have eternal life; although their soul will continue to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies they will be “as dead” compared to those souls who are close to God.

    “In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
    Some Answered Questions, p. 243
     
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    No amount of works brings about being saved (delivered / rescued)
    However, ' faith without works is: dead faith '- James 2:26
    Kind of like if you have faith (confidence) in your weather man saying it will rain so take along your umbrella.
    You show or exercise your faith/confidence in him by taking along your umbrella.
    Jesus did ' spiritual work ' (Luke 4:43) and instructed his followers to do the same work at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
     
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