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Featured What does it actually mean to be saved in Christianity?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Conscious thoughts, Jun 2, 2021.

  1. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    jw עדי יהווה
    Danial 12:2 And during that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book. 2 And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence.

    Matthew 25:46
    46 And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”
     
  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    What I find is what is written at Isaiah 26:20
     
  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find ' enemy death ' will be No more according to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
    There are No tombs in Heaven, No one dies in Heaven. - John 5:28 ; Isaiah 26:19
    The death problem exists on Earth since sinners Satan and Adam brought death to us.
    ALL the resurrections Jesus performed were only physical resurrections.
    Jesus resurrected No one to Heaven, but back to life on Earth.
    Jesus was giving us a sample, a preview, a coming attraction of what he will do on a global world-wide scale.
    Doing away with sin and death is a purpose for Jesus coming 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth.
    Remember: No more sin equals No more death.
     
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  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I believe that those verses refer to what will happen when Christ returns in the end times, which I believe has already happened.
    It says there will be a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. We can see that in the world right now if we are looking. And during that time every one who is found written down in the book will escape. This refers to the Book of God that has already been written; God is all-knowing so God knows what everyone's fate will be. When Christ returns some people who were spiritually dead will awake to everlasting life, which is a state of the soul that is near to God.
    This verse means exactly what it says: the unrighteous will be cut off from everlasting life and the righteous will have everlasting life. If you read the preceding verses you will understand who Jesus considered the righteous ones:

    Matthew 25:35-45 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I believe those verses refer to spiritual death, not physical death.
    I believe that death exists on Earth because humans were created by God to be mortal.
    There is nothing in Genesis 3 that says that Adam died physically because Adam sinned.

    Read these verses. It was only AFTER God delineated all the punishments for eating the fruit from the tree that God said that Adam would return to dust!

    12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

    13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

    14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

    18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

    19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


    The very last verse in the series is this one:

    19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

    All God was saying is that AFTER Adam and Eve endured all the punishments delineated in the preceding verses they will return to dust (die). Of course Adam and Eve would die at the end of their life because they were mortal beings.

    Please note that there is NOTHING in Genesis that says that Adam and Eve would have lived forever in a physical body on Earth if they had not sinned. It is just not there. It is a Christian belief that came about misinterpreting the Bible, reading into the verses what is not there.
    I believe that doing away with sin and spiritual death was a purpose for Baha'u'llah coming to reign for 1,000 years.
    I believe that no more sin means no more spiritual death.
     
  6. Alex22

    Alex22 Member

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    What exactly do i need to be saved from?
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Your lower material nature.
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    We need to be 'saved' (delivered / rescued) from adamic sin and death .
    Because we were all born after Adam sinned we can't stop sinning.
    If we could stop sinning we would Not die. ( only sinners die )
    Since we sin we die and we can't resurrect oneself or another.
    So, we need someone who can resurrect us. Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18
    Because of Jesus ' enemy death ' will be No more - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
    So, Jesus will 'save/deliver/rescue' righteous mankind from sin and its consequence of death.
     
  9. Alex22

    Alex22 Member

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    What exactly does that mean?
     
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    “In man there are two natures; his spiritual or higher nature and his material or lower nature. In one he approaches God, in the other he lives for the world alone. Signs of both these natures are to be found in men. In his material aspect he expresses untruth, cruelty and injustice; all these are the outcome of his lower nature. The attributes of his Divine nature are shown forth in love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of his higher nature. Every good habit, every noble quality belongs to man’s spiritual nature, whereas all his imperfections and sinful actions are born of his material nature. If a man’s Divine nature dominates his human nature, we have a saint.” Paris Talks, p. 60

    THE TWO NATURES IN MAN

    All imperfection comes from our physical nature, our spiritual nature is purely good.
     
  11. Alex22

    Alex22 Member

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    I'm pretty sure there was no Adam and Eve, Evolution shows that there were never just two people on Earth so this whole obsession with Adamic sin that Christians have is nonsensical.
     
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  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am absolutely sure. Here, read this and it will clear some things up: 30: ADAM AND EVE

    Adam and Even cannot be the FIRST man and woman because humans have been around for about 200,000 years.

    how long have humans existed?
    about 200,000 years

    While our ancestors have been around for about six million years, the modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old, and industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s.Jan 19, 2015

    How Long Have Humans Been On Earth? - Universe Today
     
  13. Alex22

    Alex22 Member

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    I embrace my lower nature and approach the Gods at the same time, to me they cannot be separated and I guess your Persian prophet would disapprove of my Dionysian rites but oh well.
     
  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not know what you mean by embrace. What are Dionysian rites?
     
  15. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    This often puzzled me as well. Christians I meet tell me that because they believe in Christ, they are going to heaven, even if their actions and conduct was not that virtuous or good.

    I used to find this puzzling, till you yourself remarked about it here.

    I would state that faith in Christ's teachings should actually make Christians more Christlike, virtuous and loving, and this would then qualify them for heaven.

    Not committing all kinds of callous actions and then using belief in Christ as a secret key to open the gates to heaven ! The whole reasoning is absurd and selectively pursued for selfish purposes. It is poor spirituality if this line of thinking is practiced in other religions as well.

    It is like saying, "I will do all the sin possible and when I die, I will use my belief in Christ to exonerate me of all evil deeds committed by me while alive and because of my belief in Jesus , he will personally come to take me to heaven. "
     
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  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    You're far from alone in thinking about No A&E, but to me that does Not mean there was No A&E.

    Seems to me if you ask a person if they want peace on earth I would think most would say, "yes".
    So, it then should seem that there would be more peace on earth.
    Something is missing if most people want to live in peace.

    Some people believe that there is No sin or No breaking of law.
    Breaking men's law is called a crime, breaking God's law is called a sin.
    I would like to think that most people would like to lean / towards righteousness.
    So, if most people would like to do what is right, then why can't they.
    For me the answer is the inherited imperfection from father Adam down to us.
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    First of all there is a BIG difference between 'Christendom' (so-called Christian teachings ) and 1st-century Christian teachings.
    Jesus taught that one needs to ' endure to the end ' in order to be saved - Please see Matthew 24:13.
    Even the apostle Paul warned about possibly falling away at 1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Corinthians 10:12.

    Jesus only promised Heaven to people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 20:6. - Daniel 7:18
    Jesus promised Earth for most people. Humble meek people to inherit the Earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11.
    Righteous people to remain here and the wicked to be destroyed - Proverbs 2:21-22; Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35.

    We pray for God's kingdom to come (thy kingdom come...) and Not to 'go up' to the kingdom or 'away' to the kingdom.
    This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come !
    ( It does Not say to ask to be 'taken up' with Jesus, or to be 'taken away' to Jesus )
    But pray for Jesus to come, come and bring HEALING to earth's nations as mentioned at Revelation 22:2.
    HEALING on Earth to the point as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

    So, to me what is the puzzle are Christendom's teachings outside of Scripture but being taught as being Scripture.
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    .... and what 200,000 year-old evidence proof is there.
    Even with modern technology calculations often gets changed with the passing of time.
    In our area a dead new born was found, and it was dated that the baby was 2 or 3 months old.
    The mother was found and that is how it was learned she threw away her new born.
    Remember: Adam was 'formed or fashioned' from the old already-existing old dust of the ground - Genesis 2:7
    I suppose one could say we all date back to some DNA or something (including Adam) way in the unknown past.
    Adam did Not come to life until his God breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam.- Genesis 2:7
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Early human fossils and archeological remains offer the most important clues about this ancient past. These remains include bones, tools and any other evidence (such as footprints, evidence of hearths, or butchery marks on animal bones) left by earlier people.Oct 27, 2020

    Introduction to Human Evolution | The Smithsonian Institution's ...
     
  20. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    you may have 12-13 years to change your mind,, after that all bets are off
     
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