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What does God want from you?

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Anyone who believes that evil-doers don't deserve to be punished not only goes against religion, but goes against all the courts of law in the world.

Good luck with your self-made religion. It in no way concurs with reality. It is a fantasy.

You have so much to learn, but life is a learning process.
What is more important Punishment or Fixing the problem?
What is more important Pay back and Revenge or doing what it takes to bring understanding that will lead to a Higher Level? Does trying to manipulate or coerce others with pain to alter or control their actions really solve anything? Is this what you want to teach others? Will you choose to value the petty things mankind holds so dear or will you reach for a Higher Level?

God returns our actions whether good or bad to teach us what our choices really mean. God will never use pain, to manipulated the actions and choices of others. That is not a Higher Level and teaches the kiddies petty things.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You are a Spiritual being in your true nature. This is how you are made in God's image. You must only look within yourself to Discover the nature of God.

One can tell all day long, however each must Discover it for themselves. Wisdom is acquired along the journey to Discover knowledge. That is why this physical universe exists in the first place.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
I am a spiritual being made in God's image but it does not logically follow that I will Discover the nature of God by looking within myself.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
I don't believe that that's what you see clearly, or that you or any other person knows anything at all about any deities that might exist. That's what you believe fervently and intuitively. And I find it a bit presumptuous and irresponsible. There are some pretty lost individuals on these threads that feel that they have bumped into a god and follow some ism that appears counterproductive in their lives. If I gave advice, it would be to learn how to live without a god belief or a religion. It's liberating.

You won't find me doing what you and so many other believers do to promulgate a worldview. I'm happy to describe humanism to others and what it has done for me if they ask or it comes up in conversation, but I don't care if the reader becomes a humanist. Let him remain a theist if that's what's comfortable to him. Your words are almost exclusively exhortation of others to go out and find a god, with implied but never explicitly discussed rewards for succeeding. I'd much rather read your cheerful philosophy without all of that supernaturalism in it. And, I think you'd be more effective at helping people if you dropped the religious language and just focused on attitude and finding meaning in life without magic and fictional devices.

You've left out important context in that paraphrasing of my actual comment, which is that the frequency of good new ideas has diminished over time. New ideas are available everywhere, but few of them are good or useful ideas, meaning useful in some small or large way life changing. That's the nature of learning a finite body of material. I studied medicine at university. Early on, I was flooded with important, useful ideas about how kidneys work and how to choose and use antibiotics, but by the time I passed my boards in Internal Medicine, I had learned most of the useful body of knowledge for a practicing internist. The state tested me to be sure. There was more to learn, like how to do surgery, but that wouldn't be useful to me. Thereafter, learning was mostly limited to advances in therapeutics and diagnostics, and several new diseases like Lyme disease discovered after my entrance into private practice.

The only kind of learning that impacts my life these days regards local activities - new restaurants, roads blocked, a new streaming service, etc..

My new ideas don't come from others. Virtually everything I've learned, I've pursued that knowledge, whether it be the lofty ideas considered at university or mundane knowledge of how life works gained by living it mindfully. The insights gleaned posting on RF come from my own analysis of what I read there.

Not any more. That characterizes the first stage of life, which almost all learning and growing (walking, speaking, school, acculturation). Then, we reach the generative stage characterized by production and creation (career, raising a family, saving), and finally, a leisure stage (retirement). The rate of growth declines and the nature of growth changes as we pass from the first to the second stage, and both are less common in the third stage. The rate of production and creation declines as we pass from the generative stage to the leisure stage. At this point, my life really isn't about learning or growing, or building for the future, but enjoying one's days by benefitting from the fruits of those first two stages.

I understand that you might view my attitude negatively - as undesirable complacency - but I'd disagree. I'm not searching for anything because there's nothing I want that I don't have, and I don't mean just materially. I enjoy my days, I hope you do as well. I am hoping for thousands more just like yesterday and the one before that. Today, my wife and I will play duplicate bridge until noon a tour bridge club, go for lunch, and in the afternoon, she has her ukulele class (this is the kind of learning that actually impacts the quality of life). Then we'll retire with the dogs to the terraza overlooking the garden to watch the news and Jeopardy! followed by music videos (it's pretty much all Grateful Dead full concerts) over wine as the sun goes down. And yes, I am learning and growing, but probably not in the way you mean. I'm learning about the evolution of the band and its music in new ways.

So what do you recommend I search for? Gods? Why?
You do not understand. I am not recommending anything. I am placing knowledge and truth in the world. What anyone chooses to do with Truth is entirely up to them.

The acquisition of Knowledge is it's own reward whether it is about God, medicine or any other subject. When I speak of God, you are assuming it is based upon beliefs. I speak from experience and facts not beliefs and hopes.

God is actually Someone. I have found no religion that really understands God at all. Religions reflect mankind more than anything else. Further, so much is said about God that simply isn't true. Is it such a crime to place Real Truth in the world? God places knowledge and truth around us all. It waits to be Discovered. I merely copy God.

Truth will not always be an agreeable thing. On the other hand, though it can hurt, Truth and Reality will lead to the best choices.

Yes, I see you have accomplished much. You deserve a good retirement. It seems your attitude is Me! Me! Me! Many people struggle to get get get. I have found those that give give give get get get more in the end. I will always be one who will be accomplishing and move forward thereby I am that hungry student. Even on my death bed I will be interacting with those around me sharing the knowledge and wisdom I have acquired over the years. Who knows. I might even learn a great lesson from others while on my death bed.

I make no demands of you. Each must choose their path and Discover what the best choices really are when our choices and actions, in time, return to teach us all what the best choices really are.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It seems your attitude is Me! Me! Me! Many people struggle to get get get
Read my words again. I'm done accumulating, and am content with what I have. And yours was a very uncharitable evaluation of my life, what I believe, what I do, and what gives that life purpose. Shame on you. I still don't know why you assume that you have any advice that could improve my life, or that you're qualified to judge me.
I speak from experience and facts not beliefs and hopes.
It seems you assume that others don't. This is the arrogance of your message - "be like me, because I am wise and have truth that I am here to disseminate in the world." Your life could be a mess for all I know, yet here you are pontificating to others.
God is actually Someone.
How would you know?

And why should that matter to me or anybody else even if the words have some literal meaning? Everybody I know is someone, as is everybody I don't know.

Also, didn't you just write, "I speak from experience and facts not beliefs and hopes." You have no experience of any god. You have only beliefs about gods. And that's ME speaking from experience.
so much is said about God that simply isn't true.
I know.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
I would be afraid if I bumped into God.
What have they been teaching you? It certainly isn't God.

If you have fear, it won't be long. You already know God whether you now know or not. You will remember. God will not be a Stranger. God is Unconditional Love. God doesn't value all those petty things mankind holds so dear. God carries no baggage or garbage so many people choose to do. You are going to really like God. In fact, you are going to want to be just like God.

Do you want to see a reflection of God? Seek out the very youngest of children for they have just left God's arms. They must be very very young for this physical universe carries so much sensory input that the children start their own path soon.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
It is not an either-or.
The problem cannot be fixed so punishment is required.
If you assume it can't be fixed, you never will fix it. What purpose does punishment serve if it won't fix the problem? Pay Back??

What problems do you create by valuing those petty things mankind holds so dear rather than working on the problem and traveling the road to resolution? What are you teaching others through this? How would you feel if you were told you could never be fixed?

A Higher Level: God doesn't give up so easily. All the kiddies are going to be fixed living their lessons through their free choices.

Mankind does not have God's capabilities. Mankind must protect themselves. I get that but if you take a person's freedom away and do nothing to fix the problems, aren't you just attempting to sweep the problem under the carpet? Maybe you do not want the problem fixed. Why not? Isn't an attempt the least a child of God deserves? Think how much is going to be Discovered and Learned on that road to resolution!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Read my words again. I'm done accumulating, and am content with what I have. And yours was a very uncharitable evaluation of my life, what I believe, what I do, and what gives that life purpose. Shame on you. I still don't know why you assume that you have any advice that could improve my life, or that you're qualified to judge me.

It seems you assume that others don't. This is the arrogance of your message - "be like me, because I am wise and have truth that I am here to disseminate in the world." Your life could be a mess for all I know, yet here you are pontificating to others.

How would you know?

And why should that matter to me or anybody else even if the words have some literal meaning? Everybody I know is someone, as is everybody I don't know.

Also, didn't you just write, "I speak from experience and facts not beliefs and hopes." You have no experience of any god. You have only beliefs about gods. And that's ME speaking from experience.

I know.
You do not Understand. I am not telling you what to do. I am showing you a wider view. Make any free choices you want. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan!! I'm Happy!!

Is your goal really just being content? I hope I never reach a point of content. A hungry student always wants to Discover more.

Logic: If God exists, God can be found.
The answer: God can be found!! On the other hand, I find few that actually want to find God at all. That's great! Life isn't about finding God. Of course, one can choose to Discover the Real Truth for oneself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
What have they been teaching you? It certainly isn't God.
What you have been teaching yourself isn't God.
If you have fear, it won't be long. You already know God whether you now know or not. You will remember. God will not be a Stranger.
Nobody knows God the way you are presenting God. God is not a human being.
God is Unconditional Love. God doesn't value all those petty things mankind holds so dear. God carries no baggage or garbage so many people choose to do. You are going to really like God. In fact, you are going to want to be just like God.
God can only be known by His attributes.
God is:

All-Powerful
All-Knowing
All-Wise
Omnipresent
Self-Existent
Self-Sufficient
Immaterial
Immutable
Impassible
Infinite
Eternal
Holy
Sovereign
Righteous
Loving
Beneficent
Merciful
Gracious
Merciful
Just

Humans can share some of God's attributes - Righteous, Loving, Beneficent, Merciful, Gracious, Merciful, Just - but humans do not have any of the other attributes of God, so nobody can ever be 'just like God.'

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Is your goal really just being content?
Yes. And it's enough. That's what being content implies - being satisfied. It's not easily achieved, and requires luck, but it also requires wisdom.
I hope I never reach a point of content.
That's an odd thing to wish for. You hope to always be wanting and needing more?
A hungry student always wants to Discover more.
He's trying to reach contentment. This is metaphorical hunger, hunger for new knowledge. That characterized the first two stages of life as I described them - learning as much as possible of the ideas that might be useful, acquiring knowledge through parents, schools, training, and life experience. Then in the generative years, one is looking for ways to advance in his career, save and invest, and learning through travel and books. All of that had the potential to help him reach his destination and also to help teach him what that destination ought to be. Now, new information is largely for interest. As I've explained, I'm done searching. I'm where I want to be living the kind of life that I've arranged for myself, and fortunately, I'm content.

As I've explained, I understand that my attitude will be condemned by people who feel that they must always keep searching. To them and to you, I say good luck. May you find whatever it is that you still need. You likely think that thinking abouts gods is a good way to spend time. That may be part of your problem. You're never going to get the answers you seek. This is as close to an answer as you can get - the question of the existence and nature gods is unanswerable. Recognizing that is liberating - liberating from fruitless searching.
Logic: If God exists, God can be found. The answer: God can be found!!
Sorry, amigo, but that's a big F in logic. For starters, the first comment doesn't ask a question. It's a conditional statement. Then, you've simply ignored the logical possibility that no gods exist or can be found. You seem to have dismissed it without argument. Also, you've ignored that gods may exist but not be findable.
Of course, one can choose to Discover the Real Truth for oneself.
Agreed, although it helps to begin with a good definition of truth and a means to determine what is true or correct according to that definition. I suspect that you consider your last comment about gods being findable truth. I don't. It's a fervently held and faith-based belief, which the faithful commonly call truth, but as I said, I don't.

And that brings us back to you having nothing to offer me. I'm not interested in such "truths." The "real truths" I discovered for myself include that knowledge.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
What you have been teaching yourself isn't God.

Nobody knows God the way you are presenting God. God is not a human being.

God can only be known by His attributes.
God is:

All-Powerful
All-Knowing
All-Wise
Omnipresent
Self-Existent
Self-Sufficient
Immaterial
Immutable
Impassible
Infinite
Eternal
Holy
Sovereign
Righteous
Loving
Beneficent
Merciful
Gracious
Merciful
Just

Humans can share some of God's attributes - Righteous, Loving, Beneficent, Merciful, Gracious, Merciful, Just - but humans do not have any of the other attributes of God, so nobody can ever be 'just like God.'

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
No wonder why you don't love God. God sounds like some distant, abstract concept in your belief, not a Being that can care or have a relationship with anything. I couldn't love that, either. However, most people tend to view God as a Being that can be related to in some way. Unfortunately, that's not what your religion teaches.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No wonder why you don't love God. God sounds like some distant, abstract concept in your belief, not a Being that can care or have a relationship with anything. I couldn't love that, either. However, most people tend to view God as a Being that can be related to in some way. Unfortunately, that's not what your religion teaches.So
I appreciate your comment. So interesting to me that God, according to the Bible, revealed Himself to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and more so it is possible to have a personal, loving relationship with Him.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
No wonder why you don't love God. God sounds like some distant, abstract concept in your belief, not a Being that can care or have a relationship with anything. I couldn't love that, either.
My religion doesn't explain why "I" don't love God, since all other Baha'is I know love God and believe they have a relationship with God through Baha'u'llah.
I just have some of my own personal problems to work out.
However, most people tend to view God as a Being that can be related to in some way. Unfortunately, that's not what your religion teaches.
No, not most people, just Christians, and maybe some people in other religions, or people who have no religion yet believe in God.

I do not believe that anyone can have a relationship with God directly, they need a mediator. Jesus is the mediator for Christians (1 Timothy 2:5-6)
and Baha'u'llah is the mediator for Baha'is.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
My religion doesn't explain why "I" don't love God, since all other Baha'is I know love God and believe they have a relationship with God through Baha'u'llah.
I just have some of my own personal problems to work out.

No, not most people, just Christians, and maybe some people in other religions, or people who have no religion yet believe in God.

I do not believe that anyone can have a relationship with God directly, they need a mediator. Jesus is the mediator for Christians (1 Timothy 2:5-6)
and Baha'u'llah is the mediator for Baha'is.
That's how the Baha'i view of God comes across in general, not just from you.

Well, I strongly disagree with not being able to have a relationship with God. Even before Jesus, God formed relationships with all sorts of people. The Biblical God reached out to all sorts of people, from kings and queens, to slaves and prostitutes.

And that's not how Jesus is a mediator between God and humanity. Jesus came to atone for our sins and reconcile us back to God, so that we may be able to go to Heaven and be with God directly. Before Jesus' atonement for us through His death, we weren't allowed into Heaven as nothing impure can enter Heaven. That's a totally separate thing than having a relationship with God. No, we were always having a relationship with God as humanity as a whole and as individuals from the beginning. He's always been reaching out.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
My religion doesn't explain why "I" don't love God, since all other Baha'is I know love God and believe they have a relationship with God through Baha'u'llah.
I just have some of my own personal problems to work out.

No, not most people, just Christians, and maybe some people in other religions, or people who have no religion yet believe in God.

I do not believe that anyone can have a relationship with God directly, they need a mediator. Jesus is the mediator for Christians (1 Timothy 2:5-6)
and Baha'u'llah is the mediator for Baha'is.

I learned the hard way that there was no personal relationship with God or Jesus when I was still a Christian. There was nothing but a constant feeling of hopelessness and despair that I felt during the forty years that I genuinely believed in God. As I explained in another post (linked below), I searched for God for forty years and never found him. I can remember other Christians claiming to feel God's presence in their lives and having a personal relationship with him, but I felt nothing of the sort. After a while of hearing this, I began to assume that they were only acting like they felt God's presence as I did and were playing church, as I was in the hope that someday it would happen. My dear husband, a devout Christian, has admitted that it's possible his emotions were manipulated during church services, but he interpreted it as feeling God's presence. He said the services were designed to elicit strong emotions.

 
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