Anastasios
Member
For example while praying, or any other practise in Christianity. What is the idea in rational sense?
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What does exactly mean "through Jesus Christ"?
- Thread starter Anastasios
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FFH
Veteran Member
We do everything for, and in behalf of, Christ, because we have been commissioned to do so. Jesus Christ wants us to do all that we do in his name. We pray in the name of Jesus Christ, we baptize in the name of Jesus Christ. We give blessings in the name of Jesus Christ. We can do nothing without the authority of Jesus Christ. It is a constant reminder of who's work this really is. It's the work of Jesus Christ. We teach in the name of Christ. We prophesy in the name of Christ and so on, as if he was here doing it himself.
No*s
Captain Obvious
Anastasios said:
Christ makes possible our access to the life of the Godhead. In being God and becoming a man, He united the divine to the human nature. Prayer, by extension, is one of the means by which we participate in this nature. Christ's sacrifice permeates time ("slain before the foundation of the world") and enables it to function. Our sins are remitted through Christ's work, because by becoming human, He purified the humanity we tainted, and by participating in His nature, we purify our own.
In every case, our participation in Christ enables us to know and experience God properly. Thus, in every case, Christ is instrumental, thus we do these things "through Christ."
Halcyon
Lord of the Badgers
I have a different interpretation.
It is often said "We are saved through Jesus Christ."
Most Christians assume it is through his death, his sacrifice, that we are saved as this act washes away our sins.
I say that it is through his teachings that we are saved. Like Shakyamuni Buddha, Yeshua clears a path for us to know truth - its up to us to follow that path.
It is often said "We are saved through Jesus Christ."
Most Christians assume it is through his death, his sacrifice, that we are saved as this act washes away our sins.
I say that it is through his teachings that we are saved. Like Shakyamuni Buddha, Yeshua clears a path for us to know truth - its up to us to follow that path.
Anastasios
Member
I see, it seems that Christians connot get salvation without him, who means a third person between God (father) and humankind.
- Why cannot he be understoodd as only a person, a prophet, who has a torch and lighting the path to God, as a prophet who showed how to reach the God, who is inside of us (as i believed)? What exactly makes us different in creation from him, exept for his reaching a very high spiritual level, if we also have the same essence of God?
- How can the people reach and combine with their inner God? Are they also trying to make what Jesus showed them? or just waiting for a salvation from himself, instead of struggling for the salvation of their spirit, as Jesus's suggested.
It must be better to teach fishing to a person, rather than givinig a fish everyday to him.
-Didn't jesus teach how to stand without himself?
To me actually, what he did was to teach how to become sons of god as he mentioned in sermon on the mount.
-Don't you think that this idea, to focus on someone else for such a salvation, makes you away from your own essence, which must be the real salvation, as Jesus pointed out actually?
Regards.
- Why cannot he be understoodd as only a person, a prophet, who has a torch and lighting the path to God, as a prophet who showed how to reach the God, who is inside of us (as i believed)? What exactly makes us different in creation from him, exept for his reaching a very high spiritual level, if we also have the same essence of God?
- How can the people reach and combine with their inner God? Are they also trying to make what Jesus showed them? or just waiting for a salvation from himself, instead of struggling for the salvation of their spirit, as Jesus's suggested.
It must be better to teach fishing to a person, rather than givinig a fish everyday to him.
-Didn't jesus teach how to stand without himself?
To me actually, what he did was to teach how to become sons of god as he mentioned in sermon on the mount.
-Don't you think that this idea, to focus on someone else for such a salvation, makes you away from your own essence, which must be the real salvation, as Jesus pointed out actually?
Regards.
Anastasios
Member
What I am asking is mostly related to how we understand him, rather than what he said.may said:
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
The only way to the Father is through Christ. Meaning...to know the Father...to spend eternity with God...we're instructed to accept Christ's sacrifice for our sins. So, I pray to/through Jesus Christ because I was instructed to.Anastasios said:
Further, when I accepted Christ's sacrifice and asked Him to come into my life, I received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...who guides and directs me. I do believe in the Trinity. So, everything good that I accomplish in my life is because of HE who is WITHIN me.
FFH
Veteran Member
Christ was given authority, by his Heavenly Father, to do what he did, while he was on earth. Christ then gave that authority, to do what he did, to his disciples, before he died. Christ has done the same thing in modern times. He has given his authority to many righteous men on earth.Anastasios said:
Through Christ, or by his power, we are saved, and we do all we do through him, or by his power, in order to help save souls for him.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
I do not accept substitutionary atonement. Repentance is to God, forgiveness is from God. And God is Single, Alone and The Source of All.Anastasios said:
I think that if we think of the Manifestations (Jesus, Muhammad, Baha`u'llah) as intermediaries FROM God rather than TO God we avoid most of the confusion. IF They bring the knowledge of God to us so it can be understood we are ABLE to interact with God without an intermediary.
Since of all things that are only GOD is self-subsisten - all of Creation is contingent upon the Will of God. Only GOD is contingent upon nothing. Therefore what REAL understanding can a contingent creature such as man possess? Realizing that the direct path to Himself is forever blocked for His Creation, God willed into existence another Kingdom of Creation that would be the perfect conduit for the Knowledge of God to find Its way to mankind - that perfect conduit was Adam, Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Krsna, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha`u'llah. While embodying all the perfections of the Kingdom of Man, They also possess other perfections that we do not know.
We have the capability to mirror forth the Attributes of God to greater or lesser degree as we develop in the course of our lifetime. The Manifestations have the capability to mirror forth ALL Those Attributes perfectly.
So, yes, They ARE different and yes, They are the same as us.
Regards,
Scott
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
We don't assume squat. It is what is directly stated in scripture.Halcyon said:
I am greatly ammused that one can take a purely scriptural idea, by that I mean one that is generated and fully explained in scripture, and then decide to believe whatever pops into their head as to what it means. I suppose if it feels warm and fuzzy.....Halcyon said:
JillianMarie77
Member
Christians (I think) view Christ as the great mediator. "For none come unto the father but by me" or some such sentiment.
Exactly... no one can attain salvation on their own... only by our Lord and Savior Jesus can this be had...
Because, that is not who He was, nor who He was revealed to us as... He is God the Son part of the Holy Trinity, sanctifier of men...
What makes us different is that He was not created... He is the creator... "All things were made by Him, and nothing was made without Him".
Could you explain this more... I am not sure I understand this fully...
Jesus never said salvation was something we could get by struggling... We struggle to be as Christ-like as we can... but we realize that salvation is through Jesus only...
Jesus never said that we could find salvation through ourselves or in ourselves...
well his father Jehovah God, did say to listen to him(Jesus)Anastasios said:
And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him .......... luke 9;35.............. the way that i understand Jesus is that he is working along with Jehovahs purpose , and that is, to get all things togeather again in the heavens and the earth
Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] "subjected all things under his feet." But when he says that all things have been subjected, it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone 1 corinthians 15 ;24-28
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
In what sense do you mean this?nutshell said:
For clarity's sake, mind you. I believe He was the Son of God, but I think we mean two different things by that phrase "Son of God".
How exactly is God the father of Jesus of Nazareth, born to Maryam, who ws betrothed to and married Yusef? By what mechanism is the sonship made manifest? Bearing in mind that we beget children through a biochemical process where half of the genetic material of a child comes from the mother and the father.
How is this process DIFFERENT in the case of a child "begotten" by God?
I really want to know what someone means when they say that the father of Jesus is God.
Regards,
Scott
Anastasios
Member
Well, all I understand from you is what you are taught and told so far. These are very dogmatical, rather than rational and natural. How do you analyze, comprehend, assimilate and reach the truth with those dogmas in your mind? Because when I read the scriptures I see a very great message for the secret treasure of son of man to become a son of god (in spiritual sense) in his own nature. While there is a very rational, natural and logical understanding, I don't know how a person can accept this complicated nature of Jesus and his message.Mister Emu said:
That is what I meant with inner God, with a better description "The God who is inside of us", which was reached by Jesus. The Holy Quran tells it us beautifully "And assuredly, We have created man and We know what his mind whispers to him, and We are nearer to him than even his jugular vein." (50.17 (16))
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Hiya Anastasios,
Dare I fling my mind into the fray?
My interpretation of this is relatively simple and actually fairly close to what seems to be your own understanding.
Jesus, the Christ, is a symbol for the inner self. In order to get to the goodies, one MUST go through the inner self. There is no possibility of greater understanding without doing so. I believe that Christ wanted us to look deep withing ourselves to rattle our inner cages and to shake off our preconceptions about what reality is. The inner self is the doorway. It is surprising easy to grab a hold of, once one knows what they are looking for.
In short, focusing on Christ himself, will only take you so far. Then you have to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty by doing the rest yourself. I could be wrong, of course, but my thinking has not failed me for many a decade now. I am even bold enough to conjecture that even if I am wrong, God will understand. How could he do otherwise?
Rigid thinking is perhaps the greatest error that people make, as they sit within their self satisfied preconceptions of what should be, meanwhile ignoring any evidence of what may in fact be. A bit clumsy wordy, but I hope you get my drift.
Dare I fling my mind into the fray?
My interpretation of this is relatively simple and actually fairly close to what seems to be your own understanding.
Jesus, the Christ, is a symbol for the inner self. In order to get to the goodies, one MUST go through the inner self. There is no possibility of greater understanding without doing so. I believe that Christ wanted us to look deep withing ourselves to rattle our inner cages and to shake off our preconceptions about what reality is. The inner self is the doorway. It is surprising easy to grab a hold of, once one knows what they are looking for.
In short, focusing on Christ himself, will only take you so far. Then you have to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty by doing the rest yourself. I could be wrong, of course, but my thinking has not failed me for many a decade now. I am even bold enough to conjecture that even if I am wrong, God will understand. How could he do otherwise?
Rigid thinking is perhaps the greatest error that people make, as they sit within their self satisfied preconceptions of what should be, meanwhile ignoring any evidence of what may in fact be. A bit clumsy wordy, but I hope you get my drift.