What does demon possession mean to you?

[Shadow Wolf]

Just because you are so sure of yourself; that doesn't make it a fact.

It is a fact it doesn't exist. If it did, we would have definitive proof of it by now. Just as we would of Bigfoot and Nessy if they were real.

 

[Darkforbid]

100% are fake. James Randi, for example, came up with the most simple of tests to provide a controlled setting for psychics to prove themselves (with a hefty cash reward if they could). All have failed. And when these psychics play in their own world, we can explain it and replicate it all with simple parlor magic tricks.

Wow, Randi, I've only been a know light since I was born how come I've never been recommended and refused by the Randi Education Foundation,,,

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wow, Randi, I've only been a know light since I was born how come I've never been recommended and refused by the Randi Education Foundation,,,

It may be a case of "been there, done that."

 

[Darkforbid]

It may be a case of "been there, done that."

That was unlucky

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Except it's a fact that demonic possession does not exist.

Sure it exists and it is quite contagious. It's viral in the way it spreads

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That was unlucky

It wouldn't be. It would just mean they have already had people with the same "powers" that failed the test.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sure it exists and it is quite contagious. It's viral in the way it spreads

Then why are no traces found in clinical patients?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Then why are no traces found in clinical patients?

Traces of demons?

 

[blü 2]

A virus is a real thing but not a living thing. Just a meme as an idea or a behavior or a thought form are real things but not living things.

I know that's arguable, but my own view is that along the line from biochemistry to living biochemistry there's no clear boundary.

But I think the main difference between a virus and a meme is the one I rather clumsily mentioned, that the virus exists materially, biochemically, and would be here even if humans were not; and the meme exists only conceptually, is a generalization about a feature of collective psychology, and doesn't exist in the absence of several brains.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

the meme exists only conceptually, is a generalization about a feature of collective psychology, and doesn't exist in the absence of several brains.

Just as a virus doesn't exhibit certain properties like the ability to reproduce unless it has a host, just as memes cannot spread unless there is a host.

 

[Darkforbid]

Just as a virus doesn't exhibit certain properties like the ability to reproduce unless it has a host, just as memes cannot spread unless there is a host.

Vimemes good concept! An auto replication meme

 

[blü 2]

Just as a virus doesn't exhibit certain properties like the ability to reproduce unless it has a host, just as memes cannot spread unless there is a host.

The virus needs a suitable preexisting living cell in which to reproduce. The process is biochemical. It occurs in reality, is objective. It doesn't need a working human brain in order to exist.

The meme doesn't exist physically at all. It exists only as a concept about human group psychology. In the absence of an unspecified number of brains having a similar subjective reaction to a particular stimulus, it doesn't exist. In the absence of a brain containing the concept 'meme' it doesn't exist.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

The virus needs a suitable preexisting living cell in which to reproduce.

Still, from what I read it is not exactly a living thing without a host.

The meme doesn't exist physically at all. It exists only as a concept about human group psychology.

Memes aren't physical but the seemingly take on a life of their own through their host. Some who study memes use the language of biology in describe them, memes have lifespans, they replicate or reproduce and they mutate, same as viruses of both types (biological and those of information systems)

 

[blü 2]

Still, from what I read it is not exactly a living thing without a host.

Memes aren't physical but the seemingly take on a life of their own through their host. Some who study memes use the language of biology in describe them, memes have lifespans, they replicate or reproduce and they mutate, same as viruses of both types (biological and those of information systems)

I'm fine with metaphors, but does it lead to anything important?

For instance, I could describe the history of chess in evolutionary terms too, survival of the fittest move by passing it on to other players, and the spontaneous creation of information channels for the purpose. Likewise politics. Or marketing.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I'm fine with metaphors, but does it lead to anything important

What people call "demons" are highly evolved and highly contagious clusters of memetic information we call meme complexes or memeplexes. They have no existence, being or life of their own but in fact need a host to exhibit the properties of being, existence or life such as intelligence, volition or perception for example. Sort of like an A.I but instead of an A.I ran by a machine system but an A.I ran by a human machine system both in the sense of individuals, cultures and societies.

Memetics - Wikipedia

Memeplex - Wikipedia

LeRoy Mystery Illness Symptoms May Be Spreading Through Social Media | HuffPost

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Traces of demons?

No traces, signs, or indications they've been there. And if they are, how are they so powerful they can transverse whatever barriers between our realm and theirs to possess a human being, but yet at the same time so disgracefully weak and helpless that phenytoin and lurasidone will thwart them?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

And if they are, how are they so powerful they can transverse whatever barriers between our realm and theirs to possess a human being, but yet at the same time so disgracefully weak and helpless that phenytoin and lurasidone will thwart them?

They don't have a realm, they aren't spatial or dimensional, they don't even have being whether it be what people call "spiritual" or physical. Any seizures caused by them are not a result of epilepsy and even though they can cause psychotic behavior it shouldn't be confused with schizophrenia. Like what was said before, a resounding slap can cure a patient, sometimes the talking cure is needed to cure a patient, sometimes a mixture of drugs and therapy will help, if none of that works, maybe ritualized therapy is needed as well as spiritual counseling but some are so powerful that there is nothing you can do about them at all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They don't have a realm, they aren't spatial or dimensional, they don't even have being whether it be what people call "spiritual" or physical. Any seizures caused by them are not a result of epilepsy and even though they can cause psychotic behavior it shouldn't be confused with schizophrenia. Like what was said before, a resounding slap can cure a patient, sometimes the talking cure is needed to cure a patient, sometimes a mixture of drugs and therapy will help, if none of that works, maybe ritualized therapy is needed as well as spiritual counseling but some are so powerful that there is nothing you can do about them at all.

We find no evidence of such things occurring. Also, do note, schizophrenia is not the only disorder with psychotic symptoms. But lithium "balances things out," and risperidone will silence them. If a slap will cure them, they don't have anything serious in need of treatment.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

schizophrenia is not the only disorder with psychotic symptoms.

It is from what I know biological. I told you schizophrenia is not demonic possession nor is it a symptom of demonic possession. They are different things. I said psychotic behavior can be a symptom of demonic possession, which is the reason I believe people get schizophrenia and demonic possession confused. I didn't say schizophrenia can be cured with a slap but that demonic possession which is a totally different thing from schizophrenia can be cure with a slap

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So, "in the modern day", you mean that demon possession in the Bible is another way of describing what we would now call mental illness? Am I understanding you correctly?

Since mental illness is still not fully understood even today, and there was no way to diagnose what we now call mental illness back then, could it be that some in Bible times were healed of mental illness whilst others who are mentioned specifically were indeed possessed by demons. The one you mentioned where a herd of swine were sent over a precipice; these demons (a whole bunch of them possessing one man) had a conversation with Jesus asking that he command them to do it. When he did, two thousand pigs were sent to their death.
Why is that account in the Bible? It shows the power that demons can have over humans and most especially those who might have a mental weakness....but it also shows the power Jesus has over the demons.

So when you examine it a bit more closely, it isn't as ignorant as you might think...

I'd love you to really think about that. Demons have power over people, but Jesus has power over demons? So when possession happens, Jesus is just busy with other matters (or maybe relaxing in the heavenly sauna)? And what did the pigs do to deserve that fate, by the way?