What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

[Shia Islam]

I confirm that i am more acquainted with debating Sunnis than debating or even informing Christians and especially Western people about Islam...

Being minorities in most of the Islamic countries, which are Sunnis, Wahabbis and even More than that, Shiites became very powerful in refuting the Sunni belief....This is to be referenced to the fact that Shiites were opposition during the the so called "the Caliphate Dynasties"...

When it comes to discourse with Christians and especially Western people on the other hand, i feel that i am -and i suspect many other Shiites as well- are less informed with how to approach such a discourse..

I mean western people are not interested in knowing whether the first Caliph Abu-Bakr was a holy man or a hypocrite ...or whether Shia is the true Islam or Sunni...

So what do christians and Western people find important topics to be discussed about Islam?

what do they want to know about Islam?



(Serious and impartial contributions only please)

 

[Runlikethewind]

The face of Islam in the west is dominated by extremists. Terrorism, violence, jihad. I mean no disrespect here, but in the minds of many westerners Islam and terrorism are essentially the same thing.

Also I think we tend to lump Islam all into one big category without realizing there are different denominations (for lack of a better word) like Sunni and ****e. So the differences between these is an important topic but we need a more elementary introduction into what makes them different.

 

[*Anne*]

I paid absolutely zero attention to Islam until 9/11. Then all of the sudden, Islam was everywhere in the news, with the most memorable image being a Taliban ****** hitting a woman in a burqa with a stick.

I recognize how ignorant I am on the subject of Islam (among many others) and am trying to remedy this.

I've read about the life of Muhammad, and I have given a brief look to the history of Islam and its two main branches (I plan to revisit this particular topic again, as I noticed the main branches break down as well.). Right now, I am reading about Islam's Golden Age and its contributions to the world. At some point, I am going to read the Quran.

I think I shall have more questions for you in the future, Shia Islam. Thank you for asking.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think for me, the biggest mistake is when the "West" is politically and/or ideologically demonized. I like to learn, and as a "Westerner" myself, I feel as if the door has been slammed in my face from the start simply because of my own existence.

Mind you, I realize it isn't personal, but if there's a wish for dialogue, assumptions about me as a part of the "West" doesn't help much.

 

[MissAlice]

Good question.

I think both Anne and Runlikethwind make interesting points. I never really looked at Islam itself as being terrorist-like or even barbaric until the 9/11 event. However I did meet some students from Iran who had horror stories though whether or not it was related to Islam I cannot say.

I am not sure what the best way is. People have all sorts of opinions and have built up conclusions of their own from various and personal experiences. Some of us view religion in general as means to oppression. I think it is not so much the beliefs but rather the people themselves who derive their beliefs into the extremes and practices they are which makes it so easy to lump them all together. Religion and politics are what I think most secular societies are angry with since religion has been used in order to justify the seemingly unjustifiable brutality on another human being.

 

[Breathe]

First off, I'm not trying to troll here, Shia; these are just common mistakes made by Muslims. I mean no offence, and I hope they're of assistance.
This is a great thread idea, by the way.

Common mistakes a lot of Muslims make when discussing or debating with others are logical fallacies (these are very common amongst everyone, of course), Muslims (and a lot of Christians) have a tendency to use circular logic, for example.

An example of common mistakes made when Muslims debate with non-Muslims are:

1. Red Herrings and Tu Quoque
2. Argumentum Ad Populum
3. Appeal to Authority - "Muhammad/Quran said this, so it's true."
4. Appeal to Tradition - "Islam is from the beginning of time, so it must be true (which is also unverifiable)", "Islam is 1400 years old, so it must be true"
5. Appeal to emotion (particularly appeal to fear) - "If you don't believe in Islam, you will go to Hell"
6. Irrelevance - "The Quran is the word of Allah, because the Quran has been preserved perfectly, this proves it" (a book can be perfectly preserved without being from a divine source; also, there is no proof that the book is, or even if said divine source exists)

Basically: Telling us the Quran is from Allah or Muhammad is his messenger etc when debating won't work, since we don't have the same opinions regarding the Quran as you do.

A lot of Islamic dawah is from Zakir Naik, and plagiarised stuff. This never wins us over.

A lot of Muslims make the common mistake of believing that people from the West are all Christians: we are not. Proving the Bible is not the word of God, for example, would have absolutely no effect on me if it was done.

There's guilt by association: commonly making the mistake that we in the West by default approve of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or are inherently pro-Zionism and anti-Gaza, or talking about things done in the crusades or the British Empire or whatever like we did them or had any influence on them.



Important topics for you to teach westerners and be prepared to answer are:

• Explaining what Jihad really is
• Explaining what the Quran and Muhammad say regarding violence, war, etc.
• Explaining Women's Rights in Islam
• Explaining Dhimmi and Jizya
• Explaining what Taqiyya is
• Being prepared to answer about the early wars of Islam and how Islam spread
• Explaining why those fanatics are not spreading the true message of Islam
• Whether you can or not have non-Muslim friends as a Muslim
• Whether you can or not have friends of the opposite gender as a Muslim
• Sex in Islam, especially regarding having multiple wives
• Be prepared to answer Muhammad's marriage to multiple wives, especially Aisha - she will come up in topic quite frequently

And just to remember that we may be non-Muslims, but we still have feelings like you do. Be nice to us, don't lie, and accept if we reject what you say or say we aren't interested, it's nothing personal.

I hope this is useful, and as I said I'm not trying to be offensive or troll, just inform you of common mistakes and topics that I have encountered that many people in my local area wonder regarding Islam.

 

[Runlikethewind]

Another point is that Islam is seen as being oppressive to women. That is something that needs to be addressed when entering into a discussion with people who culturally have begun to accept women and men as equal and have begun to break many gender roles.

 

[gruggle10]

actually,what does it mean when you talk about equality between gender?we are binded with the fact which is "woman is not same with man ,physically, mentally,inside and outside".that is the fact.you cannot deny it. if you deny it,so,why should there is separate category for man and women in sports?in tennis let say,why we have different category for woman and man?why dont we just "vanish" the category if you said about equality?

 

[MissAlice]

actually,what does it mean when you talk about equality between gender?we are binded with the fact which is "woman is not same with man ,physically, mentally,inside and outside".that is the fact.you cannot deny it. if you deny it,so,why should there is separate category for man and women in sports?in tennis let say,why we have different category for woman and man?why dont we just "vanish" the category if you said about equality?

Mentally in what way and how do mean not same with man?

 

[*Anne*]

I think for me, the biggest mistake is when the "West" is politically and/or ideologically demonized.

I agree.

I also flinch when I read about about how "immoral" or "twisted" we are.

 

[YmirGF]

I think one mistake that many Muslims make is that they assume, due to their teachings, that there is something wrong with non-Muslims ability to understand. They explain a point, we sit back and say, "Um, what?" and are told that that is the answer, and the problem is ours for not understanding. It almost never occurs to a Muslims that it is their answer that is deficient.

In addition to this, I have noted that on many occasions Muslims will only give a partial answer to a question. That partial answer is the part that the non-Muslim reader will not object to. A good example is the concept of jihad. Muslims will almost trip over themselves to say that the term does not mean and has never meant "holy war" and yet, that IS one valid meaning of the "lesser" jihad.

 

[Caladan]

So what do christians and Western people find important topics to be discussed about Islam?

Here's one mistake in your line of thought, which is the automatic linkage between Christians and Westerners. western and central Europe which are in the middle of an interaction with Muslims, have much secularism in them, so beyond the Western Christianity-Islam equation, many Muslims are simply not aware that many 'Westerners' do not follow a religious line of thought to begin with, a healthy 'western' thinker, is not interested in Islamic theology arguments that Jesus was a prophet and not the 'son of God', but is interested about what social and demographic baggage does the interplay between 'East and West' carries, for example, many Europeans are not worried that Muslims reject Jesus as the savior, but are instead concerned about the cultural baggage and potential confrontation and demographic changes that Muslims bring into Europe, on another level, not only are they not worried that Muslims reject Christian beliefs, but they are more worried that Muslims bring a baggage of religious (or cultural) issues which are at odds with the way of life Europeans have established.

what do they want to know about Islam?

I can tell you what we dont want to know.
we do not want to know if you believe that the Qur'an is a treasury of scientific miracles.
Instead we want to understand about the 'real' issues, some of which are gender issues, radicalization vs reform or moderation, human rights issues, constructive political information vs the slogans about a one Ummah, instead of preaches about 'true Islam' we want to hear the opinions of Muslims about real issues of current events that take place in the Muslim societies.
in short, we want less preaching and more open debate and dialogue without the dichotomy of a decadent West infront of a righteous religion, think about it this way, even if Muslims do believe that Westerners live a life of corruption, there's nothing you can do about it, the Western societies have a history of their own, they have their own spirit of things, people from secular societies have a completely different experience of sexuality, gender roles, philosophies, etc. acting as if Islam is the magic forumla to an unrighteous Western way of life, is the completely wrong approach and shows a great amount of ill-communication, not only do most Westerners are not looking for a new religion, but instead Muslims should worry about the image of Islam as it is seen today in the West before even thinking that Islam is a religion westerners are looking for, there are real problems and strife between Western societies and Muslims, they are more worthy of discussion than hearing which religion is the right one for everyone.

 

[LuisDantas]

Good points so far.

I think some work at explaining the way Muslims see the relationship between Islam and the government would be nice, as well.

I would suggest being a bit less condescending towards atheists, but I suppose that is too much to ask.

 

[gruggle10]

Here's one mistake in your line of thought, which is the automatic linkage between Christians and Westerners. western and central Europe which are in the middle of an interaction with Muslims, have much secularism in them, so beyond the Western Christianity-Islam equation, many Muslims are simply not aware that many 'Westerners' do not follow a religious line of thought to begin with, a healthy 'western' thinker, is not interested in Islamic theology arguments that Jesus was a prophet and not the 'son of God', but is interested about what social and demographic baggage does the interplay between 'East and West' carries, for example, many Europeans are not worried that Muslims reject Jesus as the savior, but are instead concerned about the cultural baggage and potential confrontation and demographic changes that Muslims bring into Europe, on another level, not only are they not worried that Muslims reject Christian beliefs, but they are more worried that Muslims bring a baggage of religious (or cultural) issues which are at odds with the way of life Europeans have established.

same problem which muhammad pbuh faced 1400 years ago...

 

[Caladan]

same problem which muhammad pbuh faced 1400 years ago...

And following the rejection of Islam by many of the pagan tribes, a series of military conquests took place. if you wanted to make a case for Islam, Im afraid you are only making 'Westerners' more paranoid.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Shia you know what my answer is. I think too many Muslims come across as preachy or preaching, trying to drive their point across in a way they're literally trying to beat it into you. I also think it's important that Shia dialogue with westerners and show them a more moderate face of Islam, because they're sure not seeing moderate with the Wahabis, and other Sunni that are near enough Wahabi.

 

[Tiapan]

This appears the most sane post I have seen on this issue.

The questions Odion has suggested seem a good starting point, to get a concept of the historical landscape Islam evolved from and its key tennents. There are major cultural differences between Western and Islamic States. Democracy rather than theocracy, sexual equality of job, welfare and legal rights, our education systems are different. Premarital sexual interaction is highly repressed vs not suppressed. etc. etc.

I am curious how when considering Western culture, Islam reconciles the Islam-christian(Abrahamic) dichotomy vs Islam-atheist(Godless) dichotomy.

Cheers

 

[Sahar]

Important topics for you to teach westerners and be prepared to answer are:

• Explaining what Jihad really is
• Explaining what the Quran and Muhammad say regarding violence, war, etc.
• Explaining Women's Rights in Islam
• Explaining Dhimmi and Jizya
• Explaining what Taqiyya is
• Being prepared to answer about the early wars of Islam and how Islam spread
• Explaining why those fanatics are not spreading the true message of Islam
• Whether you can or not have non-Muslim friends as a Muslim
• Whether you can or not have friends of the opposite gender as a Muslim
• Sex in Islam, especially regarding having multiple wives
• Be prepared to answer Muhammad's marriage to multiple wives, especially Aisha - she will come up in topic quite frequently

Yes, but aren't these the hot topics of the debates anyway? Most of these topics were addressed hundreds of times.

 

[Caladan]

Yes, but aren't these the hot topics of the debates anyway? Most of these topics were addressed hundreds of times.

Good point. I agree that many of the above points are secondary to non important to me in a quest for dialogue with Muslims. we should deal with much more current social material.

 

[Sahar]

Good points so far.

I think some work at explaining the way Muslims see the relationship between Islam and the government would be nice, as well.

This was explained dozens of times, even there are multiple educational threads about this specific topic in Islam DIR and it was debated many times.