What’s your main reason for being a theist or an atheist?

[Dawnofhope]

You mean how theists refuse to accept the truth of reality, that personal evidence, aka personal faith, is to evidence as bald is to a hair color? If anything, theists are not convinced by evidence so much as gullible to philosophical woo that fills in the gaps of knowledge with non-credible religious concepts.

My point is the argument works both ways.

 

[Phaedrus]

My point is the argument works both ways.

And my point is that both atheism and theism cannot both be accurate portrayals of reality. Therefore, your kindergarten banter is not so much a credible argument as it is a sign of your loose psyche.

There is only one reality, and theists miss the mark by believing in that which is illogical and has zero evidence to support its viability.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

But there’s zero evidence outside of personal experience for atheism too.

You seem to be laboring under a false idea of what atheism actually is.

To be an atheist? Does not require evidence of anything. So your statement, above, is a non-sequitur-- it isn't a valid observation. Atheism isn't a positive claim. It is a conclusion based on theism's positive claim-- and theism has failed to meet the burden of proof.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

My point is the argument works both ways.

No. It most certainly does not work both ways-- you are operating under a false premise.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

So your evidence is the perception of how the opposing points of view don’t appear convincing?

Atheism and theism are not opposite points of view. Again, you are operating under a false idea of what 'atheism' is.

Theism is a positive claim. Atheism is a nullification of that positive claim-- not an opposite claim as you keep falsely stating.

 

[Dawnofhope]

And my point is that both atheism and theism cannot both be accurate portrayals of reality. Therefore, your kindergarten banter is not so much a credible argument as it is a sign of your loose psyche.

There is only one reality, and theists miss the mark by believing in that which is illogical and has zero evidence to support its viability.

Certainly Abrahamic Theism contradicts atheism and both can not be true. Most of us would agree. Deism is closer to atheism.

Personal insults as well as being against the rules are often a sign of projection.

Psychological projection - Wikipedia

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Certainly Abrahamic Theism contradicts atheism and both can not be true. Most of us would agree. Deism is closer to atheism.

All theism contri-indicates atheism. Even deism. And no, it's not "closer" to atheism, as deism is, yet again, a positive claim. Whereas atheism isn't a claim at all-- it's a nullification of theism's positive claim(s).

You seem to think that atheism is like a "minus 1" to theism's' "plus 1". More accurate would be if theism is plus 1, then atheism is zero.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Atheism and theism are not opposite points of view. Again, you are operating under a false idea of what 'atheism' is.

Theism is a positive claim. Atheism is a nullification of that positive claim-- not an opposite claim as you keep falsely stating.

The claim that God or gods exist as opposed to the claim that no God or god exists are opposing points of view. I agree that one position is not the opposite of another.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm a theist because too many otherwise unexplainable and illogical things have happened to me ... there being a God or Gods is the best explanation I have. I have no sense of having to explain it to, or convince anyone.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The claim that God or gods exist as opposed to the claim that no God or god exists are opposing points of view. I agree that one position is not the opposite of another.

The first one is a theist claim. The second one isn't atheism in the general sense.

Atheism isn't a claim no gods-- it's a nullification of the positive claim gods do exist.

And that's where you went wrong.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Lesson 21: Blessed Silence.

Had to put on ignore a certain ... *woosh*.

 

[FooYang]

Lesson 21: Blessed Silence.

Had to put on ignore a certain ... *woosh*.

God is merciful

 

[sun rise]

I'm a theist because too many otherwise unexplainable and illogical things have happened to me ... there being a God or Gods is the best explanation I have. I have no sense of having to explain it to, or convince anyone.

That's close to my own thoughts. My experiences have caused me to accept that there is something beyond the logical mind that people use the word "God" for.

As to theism vs atheism, I don't really care. If I care about anything is what someone does with his or her belief. To me, an atheist who tries to live a life of truth, justice and compassion is closer to the mark than a believer who does not try to put the beliefs into practice.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The first one is a theist claim. The second one isn't atheism in the general sense.

Atheism isn't a claim no gods-- it's a nullification of the positive claim gods do exist.

And that's where you went wrong.

I accept there are difficulties and controversies in defining atheism reflecting in part a spectrum or range of beliefs. It seems best at the outset that each atheist or theist define their beliefs.

Deism can also have a range of beliefs.

 

[idav]

I believe God exists due to philosophical reasons including variations of a first mover cosmological arguments. I have a very strong suspicion that all substance is self existing yet infinite. If someone asks if I believe in God I answer yes I believe it is more likely than not but it gets pretty complex when considering cosmology and the origin of everything. Something is self existing from the "beginning" that something would be considered God.

 

[dfnj]

But there’s zero evidence outside of personal experience for atheism too.

I am not atheist. But this argument is completely wrong. Atheism does not require evidence. Atheism is the absence of belief. The absence of something is not nothing. Honestly, this idea that the atheist have a belief system is so old and tiresome. Saying atheists have a belief system is like saying black people have smaller brains. It's just so old and wrong.

 

[dfnj]

The claim that God or gods exist as opposed to the claim that no God or god exists are opposing points of view. I agree that one position is not the opposite of another.

Again, you are completely wrong on what atheism means. From the following website on the definition of atheism:

What is Atheism? | American Atheists

"Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods."

I know you have good intentions. However, the theists claim that atheism is making "the claim" is just false. The absence of something is not something.

Honestly, I've been hearing this exact argument for over 50 years. It's just amazing how wrong it is to think atheism is claiming God does not exist. I have never in my whole life ever met an atheist who denies the existence of God. All I ever heard atheists say is since they never met God they do not think God exists which is a fair argument. I think every time a theist makes this argument it is expression weakness in their own beliefs.

As I said, I am a theist. But comfortable enough in my own skin to let the atheists express their doubts. For me, faith is a choice not a decision based on reason or evidence.

 

[wizanda]

Why do you believe what you do?

Because I don't get a choice in accepting what I've been shown by the Source of our reality...

Like as a child I tried to reject it (-3-+6 years old), so it explained it in detail (15), and said read all the religious texts; then I sort of rejected that, so it came into my life, and physically changed it (21+), then eventually I started reading at (24), where slowly realized what it told me as a child was all real.

In my opinion.

 

[dfnj]

Why do you believe what you do? We’re in the religious debates section so feel free to debate. I might too...who knows!? I don’t really like atheist verses theist debates. This could be s first. Let’s see how we go.

I don't believe in the Abrahamic God because it seems to me the Bible was written by men. My evidence is based on how can the Holy Bible be so completely wrong on the morality of slavery and still be the word of God. I don't want to sound too irreverent to the most popular dogmas so please forgive me.

One time I had this really intense argument about the nature of God with a born again Christian. I knew I got this guy really mad because he started talking about eternal damnation and where my soul was going to go when I died. I said, "How bad can it be, it can't be worse than living in New Jersey." He did not crack a smile. I had to work with this guy so I tried to give him an olive branch by talking about the metaphysics of Hell. I told him if suffering in Hell ever repeated you would eventually get used to it and it would not be very effective suffering. Assuming God would think about this He would come up with a solution. So I reasoned the suffering in Hell is like an irrational number. It never ends and it's never the same way twice. I told this to my born-again friend and he smiled salivating saying, "yes, that's it." He really relished in the idea of my eternal suffering. How good could any religion ever be if it celebrates in the idea of other people suffering for all eternity? To me this is pure evil. Evil is always where you least expect it. Why not hiding in the Bible.

Since quantum mechanics has shown we do not live in a clockwork Universe, since we do not live in a Universe where philosophical materialism or realism is fact, and it appears based on double slit type experiments and other experiments in quantum mechanics that we do in fact live in a Universe based on philosophical idealism. This being the case, and as much as it is against the most essential intuitions of science and the scientific mindset, then this video is the best representation I have found for what word God means:

I think the Greek's way of thinking about the Holy Trinity nature of God is the best expression for what God means in reality.

I will prove to you God exists. God is just a word. What the word God means is expressed in the video reference above. Nobody denies the existence of the word God.

 

[oldbadger]

What’s your main reason for being a theist or an atheist?
.

I'm an Atheist, but lot's of Atheists won't let me in to the Atheist club....... very exclusive about Deists, Atheists....! Anyway, it doesn't matter 'cos the beer is lousy.......... but a boss on RF created a room for Non-Theists and if I sit quietly in a corner I don't get quite as much hassle.

It's like this. Our Solar system is big. It takes may years for a space probe to reach the outer reaches of our system, and mankind on little Earth has only been around for the tiniest % of the 4.5 billion years that it has been here. So it's strange to think that God is particularly bothered about us.

Our Solar system is in a Galaxy, and it takes about 250 million years for our Sun to orbit this galaxy once. There are a hundred billion or more Stars in this one Galaxy, so it's strange to kind of megalomanic to think that we are important enough for God to be particularly bothered about us.

Our Galaxy is one of hundreds of billions in trhe Universe, and we know this now, so it really is as arrogant and stuck up as hell to think that God is bothered about us.

Distortions in the shape of our Universe, and galaxies moving out of sync with their anticipated lines of travel are causing interest in many astronomers, physicists and mathematicians because this could suggest that there are massive gravitational forces beyond our Universe, which could mean.......... it really is the most primitive mindset to imagine that God is bothered about, or even knows about..... us.

But I do believe in a Deity, whose existence is demonstrated by everything and force that is, but it's so massive as to leave me humbled....... my few molecules fashioned from the star dust of past stellar systems.

Now that's a miracle! But everything is............

So I'm a Non-Theistic Deist!