What’s your main reason for being a theist or an atheist?

[Ellen Brown]

I know that Homo Sapiens was no accident. I sense that a Creator made all this happen and is managing it. Beyond that begins to put too fine a point on it. Personal belief is fine to me, but if you buttonhole, cajole, guilt or harrange others to follow your beliefs, you are satan.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I don't believe in the Abrahamic God because it seems to me the Bible was written by men. My evidence is based on how can the Holy Bible be so completely wrong on the morality of slavery and still be the word of God. I don't want to sound too irreverent to the most popular dogmas so please forgive me.

Thanks for your response to the OP and my posts. To be clear, this isn’t a bash the atheist thread and I don’t expect to be bashed as a theist. I’m comfortable with atheism but thought I’d explore it more closely as I do Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism. I appreciate atheism isn’t a religion but it seems clearly a belief and an important part of one’s worldview. If I’m wrong about that, no problem. That’s what I like about RF. It’s a great place to learn and talk to different people across the globe.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why do you believe what you do? We’re in the religious debates section so feel free to debate. I might too...who knows!? I don’t really like atheist verses theist debates. This could be s first. Let’s see how we go.

Interesting question coming from you; now, you forced me to think.

I can't remember what I wrote in the past century I was here before, so...

My question is, how did you "try" to be an atheist?
If you believe in god, you can't take that away unless you did not believe in god since birth and had a revelation of some sort?
Maybe you mean when you went without god you had the worse time in your life?

I mean, if you went without your parent, that doesn't mean your parent doesn't exist. It just means once you found him or her, you have a different worldview than when wondering solo. Atheists do not have that "parent" and, in my case, wondering solo I've been doing that since birth [upbringing], so maybe you were agnostic?

One would say it's semantics, but like any topic, it's good to clarify terms. If you don't know there is a god or questioned it, it would probably be easier to come to god because it answers your questions of doubt. If you were an atheist, only two things I can think of happened, one you had a revelation [god came out of the sky and said hello, pun/no pun] and/or you searched for god and found out what you thought was true was not. You're no longer alone.

But other than that, what you're saying is quite confusing...

-

On that note, I was never a theist. I tried and that experienced made me worse than how I am now. Since god doesn't exist, it would be a waste to really follow him as if he does. Though, many people do "just in case" as I was told by one Muslim.

Why do you believe what you do?

That's the thing. I have no pre-existing beliefs. So, that's asking, why do I not believe I can't be fluent in a language I was never exposed to.

1. Best term I can think of is ignorance.

I'm trying to think of something much more deep. Hm. Maybe the question is, why don't I believe what I do.

2. Lack of feeling and sensing a higher power in beauty.

Another is when I look outside my window and see beauty, I don't feel or think of a higher power. Any synonym for it in a personal interactive type of way just doesn't relate. I think about it every now and again since I've been online for a good amount of years. Without the internet and moving, I would never have looked into Christianity nonetheless read about it.

3. Abrahamic theists seem to be confused for me to figure out what they, as a unit, -believe- is true.

Probably because reading a few books on it and talking to people who represent theist beliefs, the Abrahamic kind, seem confused about what they believe in relation to their peers. There is no consensus of -what- god is.

So, that's asking why don't I believe in a stranger I never met. People are describing his or her [since I don't know] personality, looks, and even what his friends wrote about him, but that's about it. Then I think, if it's based on personal experience, since I don't have pre-existing knowledge, who would I attribute the cause of my experiences and why would it be one god over another?

4. Lack of cultural awareness and interaction.

I know nothing about Hinduism, I'm not Hindu. I know nothing about Bahai, I'm not Bahai. I know nothing about Paganism, I'm not Pagan. To me, I'd literally have to understand and be a part of these cultures from various traditions in order to experience and understand for myself what gods are and what they are not. Our religions are shaped and defined by the cultures and people who practice them.

That's why I like Jews, on a side note. They understand the difference between following god in a cultural sense and following god in a general sense in relation to their religious theologies and ethics.

I did the numbers bit so you can skim through them. But that's about it.

What do you mean by you're not an atheist anymore?

If god does not exist, the only way you may believe he does is if you searched for him and found him or there is some sort of revelation. Maybe you were lonely without god and now you're not?

I think some people are lonely without having a force or higher power to help take care of them. I wouldn't doubt that. For me personally, I haven't had preknowledge to feel I'm missing anything I haven't been around to begin with.

Hope this answered your question.

 

[Dawnofhope]

But I do believe in a Deity, whose existence is demonstrated by everything and force that is, but it's so massive as to leave me humbled....... my few molecules fashioned from the star dust of past stellar systems.

Now that's a miracle! But everything is............

So I'm a Non-Theistic Deist!

Hi OB,

I like your new avatar. I know you’ve had it for a while now.

Your views that you call deism sound remarkably like atheism. We can both agree the world around us is awesome.

Have a great day!

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you believe what you do? We’re in the religious debates section so feel free to debate. I might too...who knows!? I don’t really like atheist verses theist debates. This could be s first. Let’s see how we go.

I am a believer because of Baha'u'llah. That is the long and the short of it.
Maybe I will have more time to say more later. I am on the run as usual from one forum to another.
I never get caught up either.

 

[ratiocinator]

Why do you believe what you do?

The complete lack of any reasons to take any of the many thousands of god-ideas that humans have come up with at all seriously. I'm an agnostic atheist because I can't know for certain that there is no god (or gods) but I see no basis on which to form a belief that any exist.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Interesting question coming from you; now, you forced me to think.

I can't remember what I wrote in the past century I was here before, so...

My question is, how did you "try" to be an atheist?
If you believe in god, you can't take that away unless you did not believe in god since birth and had a revelation of some sort?
Maybe you mean when you went without god you had the worse time in your life?

I mean, if you went without your parent, that doesn't mean your parent doesn't exist. It just means once you found him or her, you have a different worldview than when wondering solo. Atheists do not have that "parent" and, in my case, wondering solo I've been doing that since birth [upbringing], so maybe you were agnostic?

One would say it's semantics, but like any topic, it's good to clarify terms. If you don't know there is a god or questioned it, it would probably be easier to come to god because it answers your questions of doubt. If you were an atheist, only two things I can think of happened, one you had a revelation [god came out of the sky and said hello, pun/no pun] and/or you searched for god and found out what you thought was true was not. You're no longer alone.

But other than that, what you're saying is quite confusing...

-

On that note, I was never a theist. I tried and that experienced made me worse than how I am now. Since god doesn't exist, it would be a waste to really follow him as if he does. Though, many people do "just in case" as I was told by one Muslim.

Why do you believe what you do?

That's the thing. I have no pre-existing beliefs. So, that's asking, why do I not believe I can't be fluent in a language I was never exposed to.

1. Best term I can think of is ignorance.

I'm trying to think of something much more deep. Hm. Maybe the question is, why don't I believe what I do.

2. Lack of feeling and sensing a higher power in beauty.

Another is when I look outside my window and see beauty, I don't feel or think of a higher power. Any synonym for it in a personal interactive type of way just doesn't relate. I think about it every now and again since I've been online for a good amount of years. Without the internet and moving, I would never have looked into Christianity nonetheless read about it.

3. Abrahamic theists seem to be confused for me to figure out what they, as a unit, -believe- is true.

Probably because reading a few books on it and talking to people who represent theist beliefs, the Abrahamic kind, seem confused about what they believe in relation to their peers. There is no consensus of -what- god is.

So, that's asking why don't I believe in a stranger I never met. People are describing his or her [since I don't know] personality, looks, and even what his friends wrote about him, but that's about it. Then I think, if it's based on personal experience, since I don't have pre-existing knowledge, who would I attribute the cause of my experiences and why would it be one god over another?

4. Lack of cultural awareness and interaction.

I know nothing about Hinduism, I'm not Hindu. I know nothing about Bahai, I'm not Bahai. I know nothing about Paganism, I'm not Pagan. To me, I'd literally have to understand and be a part of these cultures from various traditions in order to experience and understand for myself what gods are and what they are not. Our religions are shaped and defined by the cultures and people who practice them.

That's why I like Jews, on a side note. They understand the difference between following god in a cultural sense and following god in a general sense in relation to their religious theologies and ethics.

I did the numbers bit so you can skim through them. But that's about it.

What do you mean by you're not an atheist anymore?

If god does not exist, the only way you may believe he does is if you searched for him and found him or there is some sort of revelation. Maybe you were lonely without god and now you're not?

I think some people are lonely without having a force or higher power to help take care of them. I wouldn't doubt that. For me personally, I haven't had preknowledge to feel I'm missing anything I haven't been around to begin with.

Hope this answered your question.

Thanks for the thorough response. I like the personal perspective. Having no belief in God is as natural for you as it is for me to be a God believer. That is your experience in life. Unless you have some huge epiphany or personal experience with God, why change?

Throughout my first 20 years of life I fluctuated between Christianity and agnosticism. Like many teenagers I went through long periods where I didn’t think much about God at all. However I didn’t conclude there wasn’t a God.

It didn’t become important to definitively answer questions of a metaphysical nature until my 20s. That led to exploring other religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and the Baha’i Faith as well as reconnecting with my Christian roots. I had a year where I consciously decided there probably was no God and lived life without prayer. Things didn’t go well but when I turned my attention to God again, life quickly improved. I returned to the Christian church. I also checked out the Buddhists and Baha’is. Eventually I decided to become a Baha’i.

We all have our journey in life and yours makes sense as to why your worldview doesn’t include God.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[ChristineM]

Zero evidence for gods as there is zero evidence for flying pink unicorns so the position is, show me the evidence and i shall reconsider. Until there is evidence i will stand by the default position.

As for evidence for Atheism, there is bucketfulls if only people would understand the depth of what they say.

In around 10,000 years of supernatural god worship no one, not a single one of literally billions of people have ever produced any verifiable evidence of their god despite myriad failed attempts to do so. Thus making supernatural gods the most unproven concept in all of human history.


Then we go into creator gods.

What compassionate creator god would create a peoples to worship him/her/it and create so many lethal creatures to kill the worshippers, or so many lethal health problems that the worshippers can contract.

Its almost as though said creator god revels in human suffering and that on its own is reason enough to reject god as a malevolent sicko.


So now the abrahamic god

What god would create a whole world of wonders then commit genocide on every human being except a close buddy and the buddies immediate family along with around 10 million animals.

All the rest, the pregnant women, the feotus's, innocent children and every single animal and most flora he killed to start over simply because he made a mistake.

I will not worship a spitefull and genocidal maniac.


There are of course those who excuses these damning truths. With stories that boil down to 'god only made the god stuff, not the bad stuff'. My reply is usually along the lines of "omiscient, omnipotent creators god"

 

[Aupmanyav]

Absence of evidence for God, Soul, and promotion of unscientific views by religions.
Adrian, you cannot bash the atheists. (Moreover, you are a Mod)

 

[Trailblazer]

Thus making supernatural gods the most unproven concept in all of human history.

That's true, the most unproven.
God is sure a sneaky one isn't He, hiding out like this all these years.
It's kind of amazing He has any followers at all.

 

[Phaedrus]

That's true, the most unproven.
God is sure a sneaky one isn't He, hiding out like this all these years.
It's kind of amazing He has any followers at all.

Plenty of fictional movie and book characters have fan bases. Mythological deities are no different in that respect.

 

[ratiocinator]

God is sure a sneaky one isn't He, hiding out like this all these years.
It's kind of amazing He has any followers at all.

If a god exists and it isn't hiding, then it has a serious communication problem...

 

[Trailblazer]

If a god exists and it isn't hiding, then it has a serious communication problem...

God does not communicate to anyone except His Chosen Messengers...
I guess you could call that a problem if you want a personal message.

 

[ratiocinator]

God does not communicate to anyone except His Chosen Messengers...

So it is playing sneaky hide-and-seek games....

 

[Trailblazer]

Plenty of fictional movie and book characters have fan bases. Mythological deities are no different in that respect.

What is different is that their fan bases eventually die out...
but us believers, we just keep going and going like the Duracell battery.

 

[Trailblazer]

So it is playing sneaky hide-and-seek games....

You might say that, since it is hidden from those who do not recognize the Messengers.

 

[Heyo]

I'm an agnostic. And I don't mean that in the colloquial, watered down sense of "not knowing whether god(s) exist" but in the philosophical sense of not knowing what a god is.
The logical consequence is that I'm also an atheist (in the colloquial sense of "not believing in god(s)".
And you don't know what a god is, either. People think they know because usually words have meaning and words that are frequently used must have a meaning people agree upon. "God" is not in that category. No two people agree on the meaning and there is no definition that includes all the entities that have been given the moniker of "god" and excludes all else.
If you believe in "god", you believe in something no one else does. And most probably you don't know exactly in what you believe yourself. You have a vague, nebulous idea that will shift or vanish if you start looking at it closely.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The complete lack of any reasons to take any of the many thousands of god-ideas that humans have come up with at all seriously. I'm an agnostic atheist because I can't know for certain that there is no god (or gods) but I see no basis on which to form a belief that any exist.

Thanks for that. Belief in God makes perfect sense to me as all evidence confirms. It’s like as a lack of any evidence leads you to conclude there is no God. But it’s not just a head thing but of the heart.

 

[Mock Turtle]

We all believe what we do for some reason. I’m a theist and believe in the God of Abraham. That God I believe is concerned for humanity and for each one of us. Out of His love for us all He’s guided us through His Great Educators such as Christ, Muhammad, the Buddha and Krishna to name a few. What I believe makes perfect sense to me but I can see merit in arguments that would reject such a view. I believe in God because:
1/ It seems rational
2/ It resonates with my experience in life
3/ It works practically.

An atheist could use exactly the same argument of course. I tried atheism for about a year but it was the worst year of my life. Some atheists would probably say the same about their experiences of theism. So I can see how atheism makes sense. It just doesn’t work for me.

Why do you believe what you do? We’re in the religious debates section so feel free to debate. I might too...who knows!? I don’t really like atheist verses theist debates. This could be s first. Let’s see how we go.

My main reasons - the concept of God/gods/creator, as for most of the religions, just appears to be something more likely to have originated from human projection than being the best explanation of reality. Religions more or less confirm this in their behaviour, and the religious also. And after seven decades of witnessing life and viewing what others do, I have had no impetus to change my views on this. If there is some creative force (I'll leave that as a slim possibility) I'm not sure it has any relevance for us or anything else in existence. Postulating such (God/gods/creator), deriving religions, and all the rest seems to have caused as much trouble as just leaving the issue alone - and perhaps a lot more.

I've not really had any experiences in my life that can't be explained by something other than being divine in nature and apparently neither have many of my friends. And I do think we can live just as well, and possibly better, without religious beliefs - given the conflicts most have caused, and still do cause around the world. They might be natural to humans but so were many other things which we discarded long ago - or most have.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Zero evidence for gods as there is zero evidence for flying pink unicorns so the position is, show me the evidence and i shall reconsider. Until there is evidence i will stand by the default position.

I haven’t seen any pink unicorns either and don’t expect to soon. In that sense the analogy is a useful one. However most people don’t believe in unicorns whereas most people believe in God or gods. Why do you think that is?

As for evidence for Atheism, there is bucketfulls if only people would understand the depth of what they say.

In around 10,000 years of supernatural god worship no one, not a single one of literally billions of people have ever produced any verifiable evidence of their god despite myriad failed attempts to do so. Thus making supernatural gods the most unproven concept in all of human history.

There is certainly a vast body of literature that examines Theistic beliefs within philosophy. If it was so clear, why are so many philosophers theists?

Then we go into creator gods.

What compassionate creator god would create a peoples to worship him/her/it and create so many lethal creatures to kill the worshippers, or so many lethal health problems that the worshippers can contract.

Its almost as though said creator god revels in human suffering and that on its own is reason enough to reject god as a malevolent sicko.

The problem of a world with suffering and evil is central to Theism vs atheism debates.

So now the abrahamic god

What god would create a whole world of wonders then commit genocide on every human being except a close buddy and the buddies immediate family along with around 10 million animals.

All the rest, the pregnant women, the feotus's, innocent children and every single animal and most flora he killed to start over simply because he made a mistake.

I will not worship a spitefull and genocidal maniac.

Ah yes, the God of Abraham whom I worship and adore

There are of course those who excuses these damning truths. With stories that boil down to 'god only made the god stuff, not the bad stuff'. My reply is usually along the lines of "omiscient, omnipotent creators god"

I certainly have a different narrative.

Thanks for the post. It’s great to hear all the reasons God can’t and doesn’t exist. It’s exactly what I was hoping for when I started this thread.