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"We're watching the largest and most dangerous 'cult' in American history"

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think those things are basically inseperable. A very much doubt Trump will try another war with Iraq because it can't win him relection in face of increasingly unfavorable reelection odds.
The risk is war with Iran, not Iraq.
Trump appears to be a tool of Israel,
which has lobbied USA to attack Iran.

Caution: Some profanity.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/lett...illeys-fight-to-stop-trump-from-striking-iran

But the attempted coup and the kidnapping, it's basically the same group with the same motives. The attempted coup was just on a larger scale and just organized enough to ignite an inferno.
A failed coup in the federal government & a failed
kidnapping attempt of a governor have origins in
the same group mindset, but we must agree to
disagree about their being equivalent in risk to
the country.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The mistake you are making is starting the story too late, in time, to understand the root causes of why we are where we are. If we go back to 2016, then President Obama, spied on then candidate Trump, using government resources; FISA and spies, which made what Obama did, worse that what Nixon did. Unlike Nixon, Obama got away with that, since bad guys were deeply entrenched; swamp. This is where apples to apples changed due to rigged injustice.

After Trump beat Hillary, the Democrat party was in denial and the Russian Collusion Coup was created by the Democrat party, based on a fake dossier bought and paid for by the Hillary campaign and the DNC. This is when fake news propaganda, appeared in full force, to ran a con artist narrative that divided America. I saw a man being railroaded by a gang of thieves, but with him able to fight back, with fake news blaming the victim. The jackals sided with the predators and the sheep sided with the victim.

Half the country bought into the collusion coup lie, and other half did not buy into the lie, creating the division; mass media driven divide lines. At the very beginning of the Trump presidency, the heads of the CIA and FBI both told a Congressional Investigative Committee, under oath, at the risk of perjury, that there was no hard evidence of Trump and Russian Collusion and election tampering, as would be later also proven by Mueller.

This meeting was Classified, and was then buried behind under that cloak, allowing the swamp crooks to lie for many years, since the countering, day one proof, was tied up with a slow walk Classification game. Even the head of the CIA would go on to lie, to the eager Leftist media, after having told the truth to Congress. Later this would all come out, but the damage to the country was done. Once again, justice was not served, for the victims or the criminals. Trump should have been allowed to sue all the con artists in Civil Court; willful slander, to create some justice to heal the country. But what happened is the dual injustice system got even worse. This led to Jan 6.

Insurrection against corruption is called freedom fighting. But it was spun in favor of the crooks, who then took away the rights of people, to a fair trial and innocent until proven guilty. This injustice system is being fought, with changes starting to occur, to limit the tools of the swamp, such as limiting Government control of free speech on social media. Affirmation action and DEI are being scaled back since this was for swamp plants throughout culture. Bud Light, which had been the number beer in America met its doom when a DEI operative in marketing, tried to force feed a free market of faithful customers. Biden may be the first main domino for justice; drain the swamp. Once all the dominos fall, this will open the door to healing. The Left needs to get past denial to heal. All the right needs is some justice served for the many victims of the swamp.
You are basically a broken record, posting the same nonsense time and time again even after information and links were provided for you to show the nonsensical clap-trap you keep on repeating.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The risk is war with Iran, not Iraq.
Trump appears to be a tool of Israel,
which has lobbied USA to attack Iran.
A typo. But I still don't think it will happen. It can't win him another election and to me it seemed desperate because he his chances went from solid and then covid came along and those chances were incinerated before his eyes.
Ultimately there's easier and more effective means domestically for him to get what he wants, and he already didn't like his daily briefings.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
A typo. But I still don't think it will happen. It can't win him another election and to me it seemed desperate because he his chances went from solid and then covid came along and those chances were incinerated before his eyes.
Ultimately there's easier and more effective means domestically for him to get what he wants, and he already didn't like his daily briefings.

If Trump is allied with or possibly controlled by Putin, then the idea of attacking Iran seems even less likely, since Russia and Iran have forged closer ties. Also, I think Iran may be too big a bite for the US military to swallow, given the current world situation. If we have to devote a significant portion of our forces to invading Iran, that would hamper our ability to respond if North Korea kicks up or if China invades Taiwan. It's a very risky endeavor which could backfire.

But I don't believe Trump has that much of a chance at getting elected anyway. Though I'm not really sure about Biden either.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
If Trump is allied with or possibly controlled by Putin, then the idea of attacking Iran seems even less likely, since Russia and Iran have forged closer ties. Also, I think Iran may be too big a bite for the US military to swallow, given the current world situation. If we have to devote a significant portion of our forces to invading Iran, that would hamper our ability to respond if North Korea kicks up or if China invades Taiwan. It's a very risky endeavor which could backfire.

But I don't believe Trump has that much of a chance at getting elected anyway. Though I'm not really sure about Biden either.
Yup. All Trump has to do is pass legislation that his base wants, run his mouth and appear to be to be "owning the libs" amd he'll get what he wants. Plus he doesn't care about America. It's not him. So why pursue military options tjat favor certain goals of Uncle Sam?
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
You are basically a broken record, posting the same nonsense time and time again even after information and links were provided for you to show the nonsensical clap-trap you keep on repeating.
I think you got this backwards. You are trying to avoid the past, since it creates the proper context for facts, thereby making it harder for the same con artists to run the newest scams.

When Rep Schiff was censored for lying, the Democrats celebrated, instead of soul searching and atoning. They still hold the King of liars up on a pedestal, since that is what they do best; zero good ideas but plenty of scams.

Why wasn't Obama treated like Nixon for spying on the Trump Campaign? He did it in a way that was worse than what Nixon did. He used government resources; FBI and CIA, and not just DNC resources? Nixon is still held up by the Democrats, as the king of corruption. Obama is technically the new king. Did they give Obama a pass because he was only a conspiracy nut, or was the fix already in?

The newest witness data is now showing everywhere Obama sent then VP Biden, influence peddling occurred. If Biden is impeached, Obama may have to testify to explain what he knew. He saw the FBI and CIA everyday and they would have seen the potential conflict of interest, that could harm or implicate Obama.

We can learn from 20/20 hindsight. The lie goes out fast, since people like gossip. Fake News CNN are the kings and queens of gossip TV. The truth takes time to catch up. The truth is at a disadvantage, until much later in the game; 20/20 hindsight. The censorship scams at Twitter, that always benefited the liars, would still be going on if Elon Musk did not buy Twitter, and fire the con artists. Now there is one less crooked tool to use for election interference. That was a big loss for the swamp.

There was still Facebook and others, but that was addressed by the Courts no longer allowing Government to interfere with social media, like a mafia shakedown. The Affirmative action and DEI cancer is also being removed from university and business, since that scam was an extension of the criminal element in the DNC/Swamp; install loyal operatives. You guys wrecked Bud Light, using your operatives too strongly, against the heartland hayseeds. The peasants fought back and a company brand was ruined.

This is why most Republican Candidates are running on a remove the cancer platform, so the country can heal. As long as the DNC/Swamp cancer is there, the country will stay sick and feverish, unable to heal. There are already many signs of a strong immune response. A new social virus set of lies may not work like it once did.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
The mistake you are making is starting the story too late, in time, to understand the root causes of why we are where we are. If we go back to 2016, then President Obama, spied on then candidate Trump, using government resources; FISA and spies, which made what Obama did, worse that what Nixon did. Unlike Nixon, Obama got away with that, since bad guys were deeply entrenched; swamp. This is where apples to apples changed due to rigged injustice.
I find it sad to see people get so bound up in their conspiracy theories that they neither can nor will look at the truth, which is available for all to see. Remember this: when Trump won in 2016, the Republicans won both House and Senate. The American government was all theirs. And yet, Trump's own DOJ refuted the claims of Obama's spying, among lots of other such nonsense. HIS OWN DOJ!


As part of a large, baseless conspiracy theory, Donald Trump posited that Barack Obama had spied on him, which Trump described as "the biggest political crime in American history, by far." The series of accusations have been nicknamed Obamagate. Obama had served as President of the United States from 2009 until 2017, when Trump succeeded him; Trump served as president until 2021.
During key points of the 2020 campaign, including the Republican National Convention and both presidential debates, Trump frequently repeated this theory, claiming "they spied on my campaign" in reference to these allegations.
The specific allegations of inappropriate politically motivated surveillance or "spying" all involve the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Crossfire Hurricane investigation of the Trump campaign and transition and their ties to Russia.
No evidence has been found that legal surveillance, as part of Crossfire Hurricane, was at the direction of Obama, Obama administration political officials or improper deep state influence, or that the Steele dossier was used to launched the Russia probe, or that the surveillance was designed to surveil the Trump campaign and Trump White House transition team for political purposes.
Specific actions undertaken by the FBI that have been highlighted include the use of an informant who met with Trump advisors Sam Clovis, George Papadopoulos, and Carter Page, as well as obtaining a FISA warrant to legally surveil Carter Page after he left the Trump campaign.
The Inspector General report on the Crossfire Hurricane investigation did not find evidence that "political bias or improper motivation influenced the FBI's decision to seek FISA authority on Carter Page", but did point out serious inconsistencies and improper procedures that were followed with regard to the obtaining of the warrants.
Trump has claimed that as part of Crossfire Hurricane, his "wires" at Trump Tower were wiretapped. This was refuted by Trump's own Justice Department. In addition, Trump has claimed that after the Crossfire Hurricane investigation recorded Michael Flynn's conversations with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak, Flynn was improperly "unmasked". This was also refuted by the Trump Justice Department.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I think you got this backwards. You are trying to avoid the past, since it creates the proper context for facts, thereby making it harder for the same con artists to run the newest scams.

When Rep Schiff was censored for lying, the Democrats celebrated, instead of soul searching and atoning. They still hold the King of liars up on a pedestal, since that is what they do best; zero good ideas but plenty of scams.

Why wasn't Obama treated like Nixon for spying on the Trump Campaign? He did it in a way that was worse than what Nixon did. He used government resources; FBI and CIA, and not just DNC resources? Nixon is still held up by the Democrats, as the king of corruption. Obama is technically the new king. Did they give Obama a pass because he was only a conspiracy nut, or was the fix already in?

The newest witness data is now showing everywhere Obama sent then VP Biden, influence peddling occurred. If Biden is impeached, Obama may have to testify to explain what he knew. He saw the FBI and CIA everyday and they would have seen the potential conflict of interest, that could harm or implicate Obama.

We can learn from 20/20 hindsight. The lie goes out fast, since people like gossip. Fake News CNN are the kings and queens of gossip TV. The truth takes time to catch up. The truth is at a disadvantage, until much later in the game; 20/20 hindsight. The censorship scams at Twitter, that always benefited the liars, would still be going on if Elon Musk did not buy Twitter, and fire the con artists. Now there is one less crooked tool to use for election interference. That was a big loss for the swamp.

There was still Facebook and others, but that was addressed by the Courts no longer allowing Government to interfere with social media, like a mafia shakedown. The Affirmative action and DEI cancer is also being removed from university and business, since that scam was an extension of the criminal element in the DNC/Swamp; install loyal operatives. You guys wrecked Bud Light, using your operatives too strongly, against the heartland hayseeds. The peasants fought back and a company brand was ruined.

This is why most Republican Candidates are running on a remove the cancer platform, so the country can heal. As long as the DNC/Swamp cancer is there, the country will stay sick and feverish, unable to heal. There are already many signs of a strong immune response. A new social virus set of lies may not work like it once did.
Repeating the same politically-driven nonsense doesn't make it the truth. If you want to continue to support the party that is now controlled by the twice-impeached insurrectionist former president, you don't have a single ethical leg to stand on. Ignorance and/or dishonesty has its consequences, and we are in danger of repeating January 6th or even worse next year.

All I ask of you is to use multiple sources of news and wean yourself off of Fox or any other slanted right-wing or left-wing media. You're been fed garbage, so maybe try and find out what a good meal is that consists of different dishes.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Could it not be said the kidnapping is a symptom of the same disease that lead to the attempted coup?
A failed stated is classified by the government's inability to keep up the rule of law.

In that way, any (successful, unpunished) criminal act is indicative of failure.

You can't keep (or force) a democracy if the population doesn't want or trust or at least tolerate a democracy. In the US, the people are traditionally critical of their government but at least they were happy with the form of government. But even that seems to change. The US is already classified as a failing democracy in some ratings and I see the system circling the drain. Most people are uninterested in politics and the moment the number of active people wanting to overthrow the system is greater than the number willing to actively defend it, a coup or revolution becomes possible.

So, in conclusion and answer to your question, yes, the disease is dissatisfaction with the system (not merely a special party or government). And, if nobody finds a cure in the near future, the disease will be fatal.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
This is why most Republican Candidates are running on a remove the cancer platform, so the country can heal. As long as the DNC/Swamp cancer is there, the country will stay sick and feverish, unable to heal. There are already many signs of a strong immune response. A new social virus set of lies may not work like it once did.
How do those republican candidates plan to "remove the cancer"? By performing seppuku?
 

Lotus Jewel

Student of the Shakyamuni

Thoughts?
I'm inclined to seriously entertain the idea that the MAGA movement might be one of the more dangerous cults in US history. In large part, because it is a political cult with potential consequences for everybody.

I shouldn't even say potential consequences. The MAGA movement has already had consequences for all Americans. Particularly, when it comes to the number of preventable COVID-19 deaths.

What makes MAGA so threatening is that the members don't even try to limit the ideology to just the circle of believers, as some cults do. They want to spread their extremism throughout society, starting with children from a young age.

There's also that many members fancy the MAGA movement as a Christian nationalist theocratic movement. Those kinds of groups are always worrying, whatever the religion or country.
 
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lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Dead straight, @fantome profane I am really worried about the coming election, but ONLY if, somehow, Donald Trump manages to be the Republican nominee. If he isn't, everything should be fine. If he is. God, help us. (And that's coming from an agnostic.)

Not begging for mercy, but please be aware, that through no fault BUT my own, I have not had any Internet/cell phones for FOUR years. I'm still doing an awful lot of catch up. That does give me a rather different view to all of this, however. For example, daily I follow my newsfeeds from, in this order, CNN, CBC (Canada), PBS and the BBC, so I'd like to think I am somewhat informed. My point for bringing this up is one thing I have distinctly noticed is that after four years, the news is different now. The writing is different. News have become opinion based, at least, as far as I can tell. There is also a lot of emotional reasoning at play, I suppose, to "gin things up". These things were always present in news media before, but never as overt as it has become.
Yes, I'd agree about the increasingly polarised and emotive media.
I find this site useful for getting a snapshot of what both sides are thinking, at least in terms of media positioning.

 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
"No one wants to believe that their beloved democracy is in decline, or headed toward war. But if you were an analyst in a foreign country looking at events in America – the same way you’d look at events in Ukraine or Ivory Coast or Venezuela – you would go down a checklist, assessing each of the conditions that make civil war likely. And what you would find is that the United States, a democracy founded more than two centuries ago, has entered very dangerous territory.”
- Barbara F Walter, author and CIA advisor.


- Sarah Palin says US civil war ‘is going to happen’ over Trump prosecutions
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
The US is a country whose politics has, in the last 80 years alone, produced two nukings of civilian areas, violent interventionism, installation and support for dictators abroad, increased use of torture, and wars of aggression that have killed over a million people in at least three countries.

And if they do nothing we scream "Why didn't America help!".

They are an easy target for criticism and will never please everyone.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
And if they do nothing we scream "Why didn't America help!".

They are an easy target for criticism and will never please everyone.

It depends, at least for me. For example, I don't criticize the US' involvement in Libya—although I think the execution of that could have been better—because I don't think the world should have just idly watched as Gaddafi massacred his people. Likewise, I agree with NATO's military and political support for Ukraine.

On the other hand, I entirely disagree with the US' involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq because, in my opinion, both of those instances of intervention were almost purely driven by hegemonic interests and led to unnecessary large-scale destruction and loss of life.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
On the other hand, I entirely disagree with the US' involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq because, in my opinion, both of those instances of intervention were almost purely driven by hegemonic interests and led to unnecessary large-scale destruction and loss of life.
I disagree.
The motive for both was vengeance after 9/11.
Some cited "nation building", but that was just
a post-war tool to curb the threat they posed.
The goal was to ultimately get out....which showed
obviously poor judgement.
If another 9/11 scale event happened here, Trump
would be the last one I'd want as President. This
is precisely because of vengeance, ie, he's full of it.

Like the double meaning?
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
It depends, at least for me. For example, I don't criticize the US' involvement in Libya—although I think the execution of that could have been better—because I don't think the world should have just idly watched as Gaddafi massacred his people. Likewise, I agree with NATO's military and political support for Ukraine.

On the other hand, I entirely disagree with the US' involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq because, in my opinion, both of those instances of intervention were almost purely driven by hegemonic interests and led to unnecessary large-scale destruction and loss of life.

I'm just thankful I'm not in the decision making process.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I disagree.
The motive for both was vengeance after 9/11.
Some cited "nation building", but that was just
a post-war tool to curb the threat they posed.
The goal was to ultimately get out....which showed
obviously poor judgement.
If another 9/11 scale event happened here, Trump
would be the last one I'd want as President. This
is precisely because of vengeance, ie, he's full of it.

Like the double meaning?

I think it is arguable that Afghanistan was invaded as (misguided and disproportionate) vengeance for 9/11, but not Iraq. It seems to me that to this day, there is no uniform, certain answer about what the actual reasoning for that was. There are possible excuses, but I haven't found a definitive answer about the thought process of the US' top brass at that time. For example:


I'll refrain from pursuing this further because it is not central to the thread topic, though. I'll just agree that it would probably be disastrous if Trump were in charge during any militarily pressing event like 9/11.
 
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