Welfare Pays More Than Minimum Wage In 35 States

[Reverend Rick]

I know, right? When did the news anchors get to be so hot?

I blame Katie Couric....she started it all with her short skirts she wore all the time. Now we have flowing hair and cleavage cleavage cleavage everywhere.

LOL, this might have something to do with tytlyf watching FOX as well....just a hunch.

I have said many times I have an attraction to lesbians, not that I have acted on it or like it would amount to anything but the attraction is there nonetheless.

I absolutely love Rachel Maddow and the way she lets folks dig their own hole so to speak. When she plays a video of someone talking, she lets the facts speak for themselves. Hard to argue with that.

Even though we are polar opposites in every way, I have always respected her journalistic style.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you don't know what Fox/Rush/Beck/Drudge/Breitbart/etc do, I'd suggest starting to research. Everyone who likes these media outlets always says 'both sides do it.' Yet when asked for examples on say MSNBC, none are given. If I wanted to post every ridiculous story and embarrassment that these outlets do on a daily basis, people would get real bored quick.
I guess I'm not that bored to 'go there.'
I encourage people to use these links to sources if they dare. They are always fun to dismantle.

Certainly, no one who loves a news source would ever see enuf examples to sway them. And the ultimate refuge is to claim that Fox solely deserves scorn because its sins are more numerous. Those examples do abound, but I've no interest in dissuading you from thinking leftish sources are free of sin. (I know I cannot.) I've challenged Alternet articles which some are so fond of before, eg, the claim (proffered by Sunstone) that Ayn Rand favored child sexual abuse.
I suggest that if you see a story you disagree with, then feel free to post & dissect it. That's better than example-less broad generalized demonizations.

 

[Sunstone]

... the claim (proffered by Sunstone) that Ayn Rand favored child sexual abuse.

Please link to where I make without evidence -- or even endorse without evidence -- any claim that Ayn Rand favored child sexual abuse, Rev.

 

[Revoltingest]

Please link to where I make -- or even endorse -- any claim that Ayn Rand favored child sexual abuse, Rev.

You posted it twice, & I countered it twice.
Have you really forgotten it?
I'll try searching again.
(Note: I don't believe you had any dishonest intentions. But Alternet sure has some sloppy writers.)

Edit: To search RF, I tried searching the internet for Alternet articles mentioning Ayn Rand to find the particular one. Alternet has so many anti-Rand articles, I'm not able to narrow it down. But I do see why you like this source so much....they despise her with religious passion.

 

[Sunstone]

You posted it twice, & I countered it twice.
Have you really forgotten it?
I'll try searching again.
(Note: I don't believe you had any dishonest intentions. But Alternet sure has some sloppy writers.)

I think you might be referring to allegations that Ayn Rand held in esteem a certain criminal who once kidnapped, raped, tortured, and murdered an underage girl. If so, you should not conveniently forget that the evidence of Rand's esteem for the man is her own writings, in which -- if I recall -- she describes him as a hero for flaunting society's standards. As for whether or not her esteem for him should be properly spun by you as an endorsement of child sexual abuse, I leave that to fair-minded people to decide.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think you might be referring to allegations that Ayn Rand held in esteem a certain criminal who once kidnapped, raped, tortured, and murdered an underage girl.

That was the subject.

If so, you should not conveniently forget that the evidence of Rand's esteem for the man is her own writings, in which -- if I recall -- she describes him as a hero for flaunting society's standards. As for whether or not her esteem for him should be properly spun by you as an endorsement of child sexual abuse, I leave that to fair-minded people to decide.

You & Alternet presented no actual evidence that she held him in esteem or believed him a hero. And of course, Rand fiercely opposed one person victimizing another, which certainly applies to kidnapping, rape, torture & murder. That should've been a clue to suspect the article's quality.

 

[Sunstone]

You & Alternet presented no actual evidence that she held him in esteem or believed him a hero. And of course, Rand fiercely opposed one person victimizing another, which certainly applies to kidnapping, rape, torture & murder. That should've been a clue to suspect the article's quality.

Apparently, you know less about your hero, Ayn Rand, than I do, Rev.

What did Rand admire so much about Hickman? His sociopathic qualities: “Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should,” she wrote, gushing that Hickman had “no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realize and feel ‘other people.’”

Hickman, of course, was the gentleman convicted of kidnapping, raping, torturing, and murdering a 12 year old girl. Some folks might frown on that sort of behavior. Rand glorified it in her private notebooks as "the true, innate psychology of a Superman".

But go right ahead an believe she was a saint who "fiercely opposed one person victimizing another". After all, what she wrote in her notebooks about him is "no actual evidence".

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Why? it took almost 20 years to get my MBA.

If you could go back would you try to get your MBA in 4 years rather than 20? If not then we disagre far to much to find common ground to debate around on the subject.

What world do you live in? Many Architectual firms would love to have an intern and pay them more than McDonalds. Just because you have a degree does not make you an architect either or allow you to command a higher wage. You have to get work experience as well. Getting a degree is a journey not a destination.

Many folks make not bad money with partial degrees and get promoted when they finish their degree. Still, they have to have years of experience before making killer money. Experience trumps a degree every time, the degree is just a foundation for a good career.

In some cases. Architect was a bad example. Let me use the current example. He is going in for video game development. He is also part of a team that is developing online games for apps like the Iphone and such. He makes litterally no money doing that. Even at the end of the last project he got something like ....150 dollars? And that was for months of effort.

And just a note even if it was Architecture I doubt he would easily get a paid internship. The unemployment rates for Architects are really bad and its getting worse.

 

[Revoltingest]

Apparently, you know less about your hero, Ayn Rand, than I do, Rev.

Oh, this game again. Now she' my "hero".
I suppose that Mark Ames, Mao & Stalin are yours, eh?
Did you bother to read the article which you think supports
your contention that she "worshiped a serial killer"?
A sample from it:

...unrequited adoration of a notorious serial killer, William Edward Hickman...

The article is full of unsupported opinion, histrionics, insults (see above sample, a tip of
the iceberg), & artfully culled quotes which don't verify your or the author's claims.
Things which should raise suspicions before quickly & blindly embracing a convenient polemic:
- There's no quote or other evidence expressing "worship" or "adoration".
- Since Rand was all about the rights of the individual, she would definitely oppose the torture & murder of a person.

I wonder now...is this article typical of kind of solid 'facts' upon which you base your weltanshauung?

Hickman, of course, was the gentleman convicted of kidnapping, raping, torturing, and murdering a 12 year old girl. Some folks might frown on that sort of behavior. Rand glorified it in her private notebooks as "the true, innate psychology of a Superman".

A more neutral article on Rand's view of Hickman....
William Edward Hickman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But go right ahead an believe she was a saint who "fiercely opposed one person victimizing another". After all, what she wrote in her notebooks about him is "no actual evidence".

So now she's my "saint". Then she must be your Great Satan, eh?
Since you haven't actually read, & can't produce the supposedly incriminating text from her notebooks, all you have is an opinion based upon an opinion you found on the internet.
I have a new advertising slogan for Alternet:
"All the fun of Westboro Baptist Church, but with less Jesus!"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Apparently, you know less about your hero, Ayn Rand, than I do, Rev.



Hickman, of course, was the gentleman convicted of kidnapping, raping, torturing, and murdering a 12 year old girl. Some folks might frown on that sort of behavior. Rand glorified it in her private notebooks as "the true, innate psychology of a Superman".

But go right ahead an believe she was a saint who "fiercely opposed one person victimizing another". After all, what she wrote in her notebooks about him is "no actual evidence".

Those were some interesting reads. I had no idea she idolized someone like that. Thought one of them was pretty sad how a kid was being made to hold a sign saying to read Atlas Shrugged when it's very obvious that kid is far too young to have even attempted to read it. And then I thought it was weird another one mentioned her ideas being Nietzschean, even though Rand didn't like Nietzsche and he was more collectivist than Rand. All though really it seems you have to do nothing more than share your lunch to be more of a collectivist than Rand. You would think though that her, and her followers, would have clearly saw that people indeed do have legitimate reasons for having financial woes. But then again in politics so many that claim to follow Rand also claim to follow Jesus, and they make it obvious they really took nothing more than what they wanted to and ignored the rest. Especially that having compassion for the poor part.

 

[Sunstone]

Oh, this game again. Now she' my "hero".
I suppose that Mark Ames, Mao & Stalin are yours, eh?
Did you bother to read the article which you think supports
your contention that she "worshiped a serial killer"?
A sample from it:
The article is full of unsupported opinion, histrionics, insults (see above sample, a tip of
the iceberg), & artfully culled quotes which don't verify your or the author's claims.
Things which should raise suspicions before quickly & blindly embracing a convenient polemic:
- There's no quote or other evidence expressing "worship" or "adoration".
- Since Rand was all about the rights of the individual, she would definitely oppose the torture & murder of a person.

I wonder now...is this article typical of kind of solid 'facts' upon which you base your weltanshauung?

A more neutral article on Rand's view of Hickman....
William Edward Hickman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So now she's my "saint". Then she must be your Great Satan, eh?
Since you haven't actually read, & can't produce the supposedly incriminating text from her notebooks, all you have is an opinion based upon an opinion you found on the internet.
I have a new advertising slogan for Alternet:
"All the fun of Westboro Baptist Church, but with less Jesus!"

I feel your pain, Rev. Maybe it would help if you stuck your thumbs in your ears and chanted, "La La La La La La La!" Just keep chanting and perhaps someday, Rand's notebooks will disappear. Or better yet, just parrot back to me what I say -- like you were doing before. As any six grader will tell you, that's a great way to make facts disappear.

Any fair mind person can check out the story themselves, if they're interested. It holds up and is verified by several sources.

 

[Revoltingest]

I feel your pain, Rev. Maybe it would help if you stuck your thumbs in your ears and chanted, "La La La La La La La!" Just keep chanting and perhaps someday, Rand's notebooks will disappear. Or better yet, just parrot back to me what I say -- like you were doing before. As any six grader will tell you, that's a great way to make facts disappear.

Any fair mind person can check out the story themselves, if they're interested. It holds up and is verified by several sources.

Still no evidence, eh?
Only parroted opinions from Alternet.
Strong your faith is.

 

[Sunstone]

Still no evidence, eh?
Only parroted opinions from Alternet.
Strong your faith is.

If you had actually read the article I linked to before you claimed that it was false and misleading, you would know the article was not from Alternet.

As for Rand's attitude towards Hickman, I think a genuinely fair minded person might consider as evidence Rand's own notebooks, in which she makes comments glorifying Hickman as possessing, "the true, innate psychology of a Superman".

Of course, you have said those notebooks are not evidence. But then, who are you to arbitrarily decree they are not evidence?

If some fair minded person wants to check for themselves whether or not Ayn Rand held William Hickman in high esteem, they can certainly do so. There are several sources for that information.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you had actually read the article I linked to before you claimed that it was false and misleading, you would know the article was not from Alternet.

If you'd actually read the article you linked, you'd have seen this in it....

This article first appeared in Alternet.

The first 2 times I saw you link to the article, it was in Alternet.

As for Rand's attitude towards Hickman, I think a genuinely fair minded person might consider as evidence Rand's own notebooks, in which she makes comments glorifying Hickman as possessing, "the true, innate psychology of a Superman".

And still, you've no link to the notebooks, only your Alternet opinion piece, & a snippet of a quote.

Of course, you have said those notebooks are not evidence. But then, who are you to arbitrarily decree they are not evidence?

You make a claim which would indicate that Rand is OK with murdering a person, which flies in the face of her proffered philosophy. An astounding claim requires some evidence. Note: The Wikipedia article said the she considered him a degenerate, but that he had some traits useful for a character in her unfinished story, The Little Street.

...the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me.

If some fair minded person wants to check for themselves whether or not Ayn Rand held William Hickman in high esteem, they can certainly do so. There are several sources for it that information.

And yet you provide none to support your astounding claim.
You do this regularly...."I have the truth here! Now, you go find the evidence!".

 

[Sunstone]

Here's a little more of Ayn Rand writing on the child-murderer Hickman:

"And when we look at the other side of it -- there is a brilliant, unusual, exceptional boy turned into a purposeless monster. By whom? By what? Is it not by that very society that is now yelling so virtuously in its role of innocent victim? He had a brilliant mind, a romantic, adventurous, impatient soul and a straight, uncompromising, proud character. What had society to offer him? A wretched, insane family as the ideal home, a Y.M.C.A. club as social honor, and a bank-page job as ambition and career...
"If he had any desires and ambitions -- what was the way before him? A long, slow, soul-eating, heart-wrecking toil and struggle; the degrading, ignoble road of silent pain and loud compromises....
"A strong man can eventually trample society under his feet. That boy was not strong enough. But is that his crime? Is it his crime that he was too impatient, fiery and proud to go that slow way? That he was not able to serve, when he felt worthy to rule; to obey, when he wanted to command?...
"He was given [nothing with which] to fill his life. What was he offered to fill his soul? The petty, narrow, inconsistent, hypocritical ideology of present-day humanity. All the criminal, ludicrous, tragic nonsense of Christianity and its morals, virtues, and consequences. Is it any wonder that he didn't accept it?"

 

[Revoltingest]

Here's a little more of Ayn Rand writing on the child-murderer Hickman:
"And when we look at the other side of it -- there is a brilliant, unusual, exceptional boy turned into a purposeless monster. By whom? By what? Is it not by that very society that is now yelling so virtuously in its role of innocent victim? He had a brilliant mind, a romantic, adventurous, impatient soul and a straight, uncompromising, proud character. What had society to offer him? A wretched, insane family as the ideal home, a Y.M.C.A. club as social honor, and a bank-page job as ambition and career...
"If he had any desires and ambitions -- what was the way before him? A long, slow, soul-eating, heart-wrecking toil and struggle; the degrading, ignoble road of silent pain and loud compromises....
"A strong man can eventually trample society under his feet. That boy was not strong enough. But is that his crime? Is it his crime that he was too impatient, fiery and proud to go that slow way? That he was not able to serve, when he felt worthy to rule; to obey, when he wanted to command?...
"He was given [nothing with which] to fill his life. What was he offered to fill his soul? The petty, narrow, inconsistent, hypocritical ideology of present-day humanity. All the criminal, ludicrous, tragic nonsense of Christianity and its morals, virtues, and consequences. Is it any wonder that he didn't accept it?"

Let's look at your earlier claim.

Hickman, of course, was the gentleman convicted of kidnapping, raping, torturing, and murdering a 12 year old girl. Some folks might frown on that sort of behavior. Rand glorified it in her private notebooks as "the true, innate psychology of a Superman".

You say that Rand "glorified it", with "it" being the behavior of kidnapping, raping, torturing & murdering a person.
Some observations:
1) The quote you selected doesn't support your claim. It isn't even clear what it supports at all.
2) The quotes of Rand in the article don't support your claim. The author cagily supports your claim, but that is more opinion. Thus, your opinion is based upon opinion.
3) You curiously didn't quote this part....

“[My hero is] very far from him, of course. The outside of Hickman, but not the inside. Much deeper and much more. A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me.”

4) This quote provides a far more plausible explanation for Rand's fascination with Hickman, ie, that of the author who finds an intriguing real person, parts of whom become the basis for a character in a book.
5) Did you see Rand's pointing to his degeneracy? This speaks to her disapproval of his crime.
6) In the opening portion of the article you linked above, the author thinks more highly of Rand than I do. Now that is odd!

Now, let's return to where we started at the beginning of this thread derailment. You object to Fox as a news source (inaccuracy, dishonesty, conservative agenda, etc), yet you lap up the even more extremely agenda laden Alternet as the gospel truth? To seek opinions you like on the internet is not the same as fact finding. I recommend using more sources, and with some variety. It's a good way to avoid the enticing trap of hearing only reinforcing opinion to ensure comfortable certainty.

Note:
We shouldn't discourage authors from expressing interest in very flawed human beings. If they didn't, we'd never have Kubrick's Dr Strangelove, who was modeled on Werner Von Braun. (Some say it was Kissinger, but those in the know deny it. Still...Strangelove reminds me think of old Henry.) I wonder who inspired Harris' character, Hannibal Lecter? Something to look into.

 

[Magic Man]

What you are saying is that the employer should absorb the 20% wage increase.

No business person in their right mind has a 20% increase in anything that does not pass the increase on to the consumer.

I'm saying you're not going to fire a bunch of employees to make up the costs because that will only hurt your business. Sure, you might pass the cost on to the customers, but you'll keep the employees at the higher rate. And you won't pass the cost on too much, as that would also hurt your business.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What you are saying is that the employer should absorb the 20% wage increase.

No business person in their right mind has a 20% increase in anything that does not pass the increase on to the consumer.

Could you give us some examples of this? Does the entire cost increase get passed to the consumer?

For instance, the price of gold has more than quadrupled since 2000. How much has this increased the cost of goods that use gold as a production input?

Edit: and say a business owner could increase prices and still keep the same sales - why wouldn't he or she do it regardless of whether their costs increased? Aren't business owners concerned with maximizing profit?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

"Actual data"???
Actual BS data I say.

Yes..."because you say so"..right...?

Look, you've presented NO evidence to substantiate your assertions and seem not to be in a position to refute the data I presented. I've given you an independent organization that tracks the statistics on this issue and I gave you evidence directly from the Dept. Of Agriculture. Remember, the "Farm Bill" is normally passed and it contains the funding for SNAP so it's within the prevue of the Dept. Of Ag. to know who's receiving assistance. That along with census data as well. So...those who are receiving assistance isn't in dispute. I laid it out for you. You think it's a bunch of lazy shiftless people who don't want to work...but ALL the data from various sources prove you wrong. You may not want to be wrong. You may not like being wrong..especially after spouting out an opinion with nothing to back it up...but the fact of the matter is..(You're Wrong))....

I'm not wrong on this issue, you are.
Please come back when you have something intelligent to say.

Is this your intelligent response...a (I know you are but what am I) response? You're the one with an opinion not based in reality.....:sad: