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We have a female Prime Minister

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
@Father Heathen
By the way...since this thread is about our PM...
I would like you to know she remains ....


Well, there are some in the U.S. who still like Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson. There are even those who still like Nixon and Reagan.

One measure of a national leader's quality is whether the country is better off or worse off as a result of their leadership.

My impression (and I could be wrong) is that Italians were for Mussolini when they believed Italy was on the winning side. When it became all too obvious that Italy was on the losing side, they wanted to jettison Mussolini, bail out of the Axis, and make a separate peace agreement with the Allies.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Well, there are some in the U.S. who still like Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson. There are even those who still like Nixon and Reagan.

One measure of a national leader's quality is whether the country is better off or worse off as a result of their leadership.

My impression (and I could be wrong) is that Italians were for Mussolini when they believed Italy was on the winning side. When it became all too obvious that Italy was on the losing side, they wanted to jettison Mussolini, bail out of the Axis, and make a separate peace agreement with the Allies.

Exactly. Italians felt betrayed by Mussolini because he had promised we would never go into the war.
It's also true that the Germans restlessly tried to persuade him.
Also because WW2 was something absolutely monstrous and not sensible.
The King arrested him in 1943 (he should have arrested him much sooner)...and hid him in some prison on the top of a big mountain. The Nazis found him and liberated him.
The King nominated a new Prime Minister and made peace with the Anglo-Americans.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Exactly. Italians felt betrayed by Mussolini because he had promised we would never go into the war.
It's also true that the Germans restlessly tried to persuade him.
Also because WW2 was something absolutely monstrous and not sensible.
The King arrested him in 1943 (he should have arrested him much sooner)...and hid him in some prison on the top of a big mountain. The Nazis found him and liberated him.
The King nominated a new Prime Minister and made peace with the Anglo-Americans.

I was just reading recently about the rescue operation for Mussolini. Apparently, just finding him was a bit of a problem, since they had moved him around a few times because they knew the Nazis were trying to find him.

Have you ever seen the movie "Von Ryan's Express"?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I was just reading recently about the rescue operation for Mussolini. Apparently, just finding him was a bit of a problem, since they had moved him around a few times because they knew the Nazis were trying to find him.

Have you ever seen the movie "Von Ryan's Express"?
I have heard about that movie. Very interesting, I should watch it.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
From Wikipedia

Meloni has criticised Italy's approach towards illegal immigrants,[218] calling for a zero-tolerance policy, and she wants to blockade migrants from reaching Italian ports,[83] and boost the birth rate of Italian nationals to ease the need for migrant labour.[219] She is opposed to birthright citizenship proposals, which would give citizenship including education rights to immigrants born and living in Italy.[220] She has linked illegal immigration and crime, and refugee arrivals to human trafficking and prostitution.[107] Amid the 2022 escalation of the Russo-Ukrainian War, Meloni said she supported to give refugee status to those coming from a war-shaken country but not to asylum seekers. She said: "It's time to call things by their name, to give refugee status to those fleeing war, women, and children, perhaps doing the opposite with those who aren't refugees."[221] In August 2022, she reposted a pixelated video on Twitter that shows a woman being raped by an asylum seeker.[222] The victim of the violence decried the publication of the video and said she was recognised by the video posted.[223] After receiving backlash, Meloni defended herself by accusing other politicians of not having condemned the rape itself.[224][225]

Meloni has blamed neo-colonialism for Africa's underdevelopment and the 2015 European migrant crisis, and she said she favours co-operation over what she termed France's neocolonialism.[226] She has been considered as opposed to the reception of migrants,[227][228][229] as well as to multiculturalism,[230][231] and she has been accused of making xenophobic statements,[232][233][234] as well as of Islamophobia.[160][235][236] In 2018, she said she would welcome Venezuelans, saying they are Christians and often of Italian origins.[237] She has often criticised George Soros and what she terms globalists, at times reflecting the views of Soros conspiracy theories,[216][238] once saying: "When you are a slave, you act in Soros's interests."[239] She has endorsed the Great Replacement, a white nationalist conspiracy theory.[216][240] She also believes there is a planned mass migration from Africa to Europe for the purpose of replacing and eliminating Italians, an antisemitic, white genocide, and far-right conspiracy theory known as the Kalergi Plan.[241][242][243] She has described pro-immigration policies as part of an alleged left-wing conspiracy to "replace Italians with immigrants".[220] In January 2017, she called immigration to Italy "ethnic substitution".[220]

I confirm everything. They are all badges of honor.
 
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Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member

Italian government limits parental rights of gay couples


MILAN (AP) — Gay rights activists on Tuesday denounced as homophobic moves by Italian Premier Giorgia Meloni’s far-right-led government to limit recognition of parental rights to the biological parent only in the case of same-sex parents.

If you are the opposite sex, and adopt your spouse's child, you can have all parental rights. If you are a same-sex spouse -- sorry, you're not good enough.

I'm sorry, @Estro Felino, but I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm for this new Premier.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
From Wikipedia



I confirm everything. They are all badges of honor.

So she echoes the "Great Replacement" and other white nationalist conspiracy theories while also speaking positively of Mussolini. This is the kind of dangerous ideology that should have died the moment World War II ended, but it seems that many either don't care to or don't want to learn from history.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member

Italian government limits parental rights of gay couples


MILAN (AP) — Gay rights activists on Tuesday denounced as homophobic moves by Italian Premier Giorgia Meloni’s far-right-led government to limit recognition of parental rights to the biological parent only in the case of same-sex parents.

If you are the opposite sex, and adopt your spouse's child, you can have all parental rights. If you are a same-sex spouse -- sorry, you're not good enough.

I'm sorry, @Estro Felino, but I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm for this new Premier.
There are rightists who are LGBTs, and some of them consider adoption a universal right, regardless of the parents' sexuality.
Nevertheless I consider that heterosexual couples do have the right to priority, when it deals with adopting a child.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
When Italy ruled Libya, there was wealth, prestige, administrative buildings, welfare state, respect for the local language and religion.
Italians didn't impose their language on Libyans.


What about now? Just MB, ISIS and other wahabi organizations.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
There are rightists who are LGBTs, and some of them consider adoption a universal right, regardless of the parents' sexuality.
Nevertheless I consider that heterosexual couples do have the right to priority, when it deals with adopting a child.
"Priority?" That has nothing to do with it at all. If a same-sex spouse wishes to adopt his partner's child, that in no way interferes with or slows down the opposite-sex spouse who wishes to adopt his partner's child. This is just saying, "if you're straight, you can, if you're gay, you can't."
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
"Priority?" That has nothing to do with it at all. If a same-sex spouse wishes to adopt his partner's child, that in no way interferes with or slows down the opposite-sex spouse who wishes to adopt his partner's child. This is just saying, "if you're straight, you can, if you're gay, you can't."
I deeply understand this.
But as a jurist I can tell you that our legal system, and our family law is inextrabically linked to biology and genetics, especially after the discovery of DNA. So DNA determines who is the parent of whom.
And parenthood is necessarily aligned with biology.

I give you an example: transexual people. If a FtM delivers a child, he is legally considered mother and not father. Because only mothers deliver children.

As for a homosexual couple, the biological father will always remain the child's parent. But the father's husband cannot be considered "father" too, because the child has already a father. A biological father.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I deeply understand this.
But as a jurist I can tell you that our legal system, and our family law is inextrabically linked to biology and genetics, especially after the discovery of DNA. So DNA determines who is the parent of whom.
And parenthood is necessarily aligned with biology.

I give you an example: transexual people. If a FtM delivers a child, he is legally considered mother and not father. Because only mothers deliver children.

As for a homosexual couple, the biological father will always remain the child's parent. But the father's husband cannot be considered "father" too, because the child has already a father. A biological father.
That's legalese mumbo-jumbo. If a woman with a biological child born out-side of marriage marries another man, he can adopt -- and yet that child also has a "biological father." There may be a difference in law -- but not in logic.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
That's legalese mumbo-jumbo. If a woman with a biological child born out-side of marriage marries another man, he can adopt -- and yet that child also has a "biological father." There may be a difference in law -- but not in logic.
That's a very good point.
I am speaking of this matter from an exclusively secular point of view. There is no religious prejudice in our secular law.

I assure you there have been precedents of gay married couples where the stepchild's adoption (we use this expression in Italy too) has taken place, thanks to the jurisprudence of Italy's Supreme Court (Court of Cassation).

But there is no law that encourages gay parenthood. Actually the law does discourage gay parenthood. It greatly discourages it, because the legislation encourages uniformity in society so children are not singled out.
It's a heritage of the Fascist period (I confess it and I remind you almost all codes of laws were created during the Fascist Period).
Because in that period they theorized the juridical philosophy that still stands today; it entails that the law encourages uniformity to make a society function properly.
It's not only about homosexuals, but also transsexuals. That's why there is a real trial when someone wants to change gender legally. If the transsexual tells the judge they mean to form a family, by making a child with a cisgender person, the judge will never grant the legal gender change, because they don't trust such ambiguous situations.
They grant gender change to those trans people who can demonstrate they were born in the wrong body, and they will never use the wrong body to procreate and become a parent.

I hope I have made myself clear. ;)
 
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