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Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable?

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by reddogs, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Member

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    or some might even consider he was placed there for a purpose. Was Hillary Clinton a greater danger than even Donald Trump?

    I came across a video which I could not believe and yet I am finding it has more truth than I would have imagined.

    "Book says Hillary talks to dead"
    CNN - Book says Hillary talks to dead - June 22, 1996

    "Hillary Clinton ‘Communes’ with the Spirit of Eleanor Roosevelt"
    FACT CHECK: Hillary Clinton 'Communes' with the Spirit of Eleanor Roosevelt

    Hillary was all but set to be elected as President according to the pollsters, the pundits, the newscasts and other news sources, and yet something happened to turn aside what appeared to a unstoppable assured victory. How could it have happened? Was the last minute rise of Donald Trump a diversion of something even more than we knew?

    The corruption was well known, but Bill and Hillary's corruption was not the only issue, there was more below the surface...

    FAMOUS FREEMASONS

    Spiritualism and freemasonry, were we in peril even worse than we knew?
     
  2. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I'm suspicious of all of them after President Eisenhower, and he warned us who the enemy is. A lot of the more recent activity is a labor war. The Labor Unions in the big Auto Centers demanded too much. Drive through Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, and Rochester. The cities in all those states are in ruins. All the wars since WWII were for keeping Industry powered up. I don't trust Hilary but the real enemy of the people are the Big Money Guys, who I think don't follow any party.

    And driving out through the areas that birthed the Industrial age, there are just lots and lots, thousands of huge Mansions with the children in them spending all their Grandparents money. I don't give America a lot of time. I don't think that Great Lakes Canada is doing any better.
     
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  3. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    My wife and I talk to the dead in what's calle
    My wife and I talk to the dead in what's called within some Christian circles as being "the communion of saints", which was a belief in the early Church and with some non-Christian Jews at Jesus' time.
     
  4. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    *** THREAD MOVED TO POLITICAL DEBATES ***
     
  5. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    I never trusted Eisenhower.
    They're politicians...they say things for political effect.
    Whether they're honest or accurate is irrelevant.
    Put no faith in what they say....claims should stand on their own merit.
    Aye, they chased much manufacturing elsewhere.
    When I worked in the auto industry, union labor was less than cooperative.
    We didn't actual need wars to do that. The cold war performed the same
    function. Associates & I worked on planes, satellite weapons, helicopters,
    etc, many of which never saw actual use in conflicts.
    Have you ever been in any of those mansions?
    I have. Many are open for tours. The families
    have moved on to more modest digs.
     
    #5 Revoltingest, Feb 1, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  6. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I lived in Painesville, Ohio for a year, and when I was not cleaning or grocery shopping got to do lots of road trips. I have some Amish background, but they wanted nothing to do with me. They thought I was a Catholic Nun and they are witches to the Amish. I drove up to Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo, and points south. I loved to study the history of the area.
     
  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    Painesville sounds painful.
    Western Pa is interesting too.
     
  8. reddogs

    reddogs Member

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    Got to read what scripture says, the dead aren't the ones you are "communion" with.

    Ecclesiastes 9:5 King James Version (KJV)

    5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


    Acts 2:29. 34 King James Version (KJV)

    29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

    34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,


    Notice “David … is both dead and buried" and his tomb is "with us to this day". … "For David did not ascend into the heavens”

    People do not go to heaven or to hell at death, but they wait in their graves for the resurrection.

    Job 17:13 King James Version (KJV)

    13 If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.
     
  9. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Canada's Auto industry is booming. Take the QEW to Ford Drive around Oakville and Burlington. Entire assembly plants one after another sprawling across acres and acres are operating at full steam.

    New York auto industry is nothing compared to Ontario Canada's.
     
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  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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  11. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Good
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    None of the above negates the "communion of sins" such as what's found in the oldest creed from the apostles-- the "Apostle's Creed":

    1. I believe in God the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in God,
    the Father almighty,
    Creator of heaven and earth,
    2. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
    3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spiritand born of the Virgin Mary. who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    4. Under Pontius Pilate, He was crucified, died, and was buried. suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died and was buried;
    5. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. he descended into hell;
    on the third day he rose again from the dead;
    6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. he ascended into heaven,
    and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
    7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
    8. I believe in the Holy Spirit, I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    9. the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the holy catholic Church,
    the communion of saints,
    10. the forgiveness of sins, the forgiveness of sins,
    11. the resurrection of the body, the resurrection of the body,
    12. and the life everlasting.
    Amen.


    Historians know that often members of the Church would meet in private, sometimes in burial areas or catacombs, to pray through the saints that had passed away. They believed that if one lived and died in Christ, death did not put up an insurmountable wall of communication.

    Even though the Apostles Creed was not formally written in the form we see it and thus accepted by the Church until the 3rd century, it was carried orally and possibly written prior to that, although we don't know the exact form. More on that can be found here: Apostles' Creed - Wikipedia

    Now, if you don't feel comfortable doing that, then maybe don't do that, but telling others that it's somehow bogus is simply not true because we know that this was common practice in the early Church, and even prior to that with some Jews as mentioned in "Sirach".

    One of three on the cross Jesus said that he would see heaven, plus Elijah was wisked away to heaven, so at least some judgments may occur shortly after death.

    There's more, but I gotta go.
     
  13. UpperLimits

    UpperLimits Active Member

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    Why was trump elected? This is from a Canadian perspective. It might give you some insight.

     
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  14. reddogs

    reddogs Member

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    The Bible tells us the truth to us after death?

    “The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun. … There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10).
    “The dead do not praise the Lord” (
    Psalm 115:17).

    God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!


    This gives a hint at what it is...

    "The Worship of the Dead
    Or the Origin and Nature of Pagan Idolatry and Its Bearing Upon the Early History of Egypt and Babylonia
    by John Garnier"
    The worship of the dead; or, The origin and nature of pagan idolatry and its bearing upon the early history of Egypt and Babylonia; : Garnier, John, 1838- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
     
    #14 reddogs, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  15. reddogs

    reddogs Member

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    It leads to Satan's deception of Spiritism or as most know it, Spiritualism and it is the lie that Satan started with in the lie to Eve.

    Genesis 3:4
    And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
     
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The Apostle's Creed has literally nothing to do with "Spiritualism". What you ignore is what we do know the early Church did believe, rightly or wrongly.
     
  17. reddogs

    reddogs Member

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    Scripture is clear....

    Leviticus 19:31

    “Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.

    Isaiah 8:19-20 King James Version (KJV)

    19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
    20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    Deuteronomy 18:10-12

    There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.
     
  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    You are equating with the above post praying through saints to God versus astrology and sorcerers, and this theology and even logically simply is not the same. Meanwhile you ignore Paul's statement that we are to follow the traditions given by the apostles to us, and "the communion of saints" is one of those traditions.

    OTOH, there's no mandate that one has to do it, so if you don't feel comfortable doing as such, then maybe just don't do it.
     
  19. reddogs

    reddogs Member

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    The dead know nothing, they are in the grave waiting for the resurrection.

    1 Corinthians 15:52
    In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

    Daniel 12:2
    And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16
    For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

    Acts 24:15
    Having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

    1 Thessalonians 4:15
    For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
     
  20. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    And none of this in any way negates in what I posted as this has already been dealt with and which you have chosen to ignore the ramifications of.

    IOW, your opinion is all fine & dandy for you, but "opinions" are not synonymous with "facts". In most Christian denominations, it is considered right and proper to pray through Jesus to God, and since the scriptures already have made it clear that there are those who have died who are also in heaven, what's the problem with praying through them as well? IMO, there's not for reasons that I previously have posted.

    BTW, the Church chose the canon of the scriptures you quote, so why is it you accept that canon but not that which we know the apostolic Church also believed? IOW, that's rather arbitrary picking & choosing.
     
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