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Was Satan in Eden?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by linwood, Sep 22, 2004.

  1. xexon

    xexon Destroyer of Worlds

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    As most believe that we were with God in heaven prior to creation unfolding, it is logical to assume that Satan was there as well. He is the shadow of humanity. He goes where we go.

    The whole point of an earthly existance is one of learning. If Satan was not the teacher of evil, how would we know the value of good?

    Lesson #1 was in Eden.



    x
     
  2. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Was the serpent a snake? No, it was not. It became a snake after the fact.

    Gen 3:14

    From this verse we can take the fact that before the event the serpent did not move on the ground.

    Are you inferring that taking the Bible as is, is more complex and less explainable than assuming that the first four chapters are psycological. To me that view is far more complicated.

    Wow. All I can say is that in my Biblical studies I have never seen anything suggesting what you have written about. Could you give me any scriptural evidence for your views?

    I did not see any scripture there :)
     
  3. seraphimfire

    seraphimfire Member

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    The point I'm trying to make is that "Satan" is not a proper name! It means "advesary"
    only. Not a hollywood "Legend" of a weird character running around in a red suit and tail with horns coming out of his head! "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you" the battle is within you and the "advesary" is also within! The serpent spirit that was in the flesh of Eve tempted her and she Fell for it! Oh yes the Knowledge of good and evil so delishous! One has said knowledge is power! Adam just couldn't let Eve have all the power!LOL! So they fell into the carnal wolrld of death to be in need of a Savior!
    The "advesary" is a "dragon" of a force in the earth to bring about a purpose in mankind! God created the "Smith who blows on the coals of fire"! We are to put the advesary under our feet and keep him there! One day he will be bound and I hope very soon!
    Peace
     
  4. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Actually the word serpent has always been used to describe a snake or snakelike thing.

    What the passage you quote implies is that the snake once had legs, not that the serpent wasn`t a snake until it lost it`s legs.

    It also doesn`t imply that the Serpent was Satan either.

    No but I`ve seen other harmonisations that looked no more valid than that one that didn`t use any scripture either.

    On this I agree.
     
  5. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    I was thinking of snake as modern day snake(no legs and all). Sorry, if there was a misunderstanding.

    Well you specifically said:

    I was just pointing out that there was no [Biblical] scripture in the post.
     
  6. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    [quoted]
    I was just pointing out that there was no [Biblical] scripture in the post.[/quote]


    I`m sorry I should have said...

    " See Mr. Emu I told you scripture could be "interpreted" to show Satan wrote the Bible."

    As I said when I first put the idea forward in another thread only God knows where.
     
  7. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Ah ok, you can interpret the Bible to say just about anything. That is why I take the Bible literally, so as not to let a human interfere with God's word :)
     
  8. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Me Too!

    :)
     
  9. Wleeper

    Wleeper Member

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    Just a couple of points.

    1. The Bible says that the serpant was more crafty than the wild animals. It does not say "other" wild animals. That statement mearly says that he was more crafty than the animals; it in no way implies that he was one of them, even though he did take on the apperance of a serpant. This "serpant" was able to speak in a language that Eve could understand. He set himself in opposition to God and sought to entice her to disobey God's commands. Bring me any animal, serpant or otherwise, capable of doing these things and I will listen to your argument.

    2. Read Rev 12:9. The author clearly ties the serpant of old, the dragon, the Devil and Satan together in one senentce, clearly showing that in the Bible the terms are used interchangably.
     
  10. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Balaams donkey spoke to him when the angel of God stood in his path.

    In the original Hebrew the angel of God who stood in Balaams path was described as "Satan" yet he was on a direct mission from God and not "The Satan" we think of.

    He was Balaams adversary.

    This would mean that this term is also interchangable with the "Good Satans" that do Gods work.

    However you must remember that the word "Satan" is not once used in Genesis nor is Dragon or Devil.

    Actually Gen 3:1 says the serpent was "more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. "

    The term "Beast of the Field" is used elsewhere in the book to describe cattle or domestic animals.
     
  11. irishicon

    irishicon New Member

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    Is the Bible for real? Who really wrote it?
     
  12. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    It`s fiction or historical fiction.
    No one knows who wrote it
     
  13. harold e. rice

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    Ge 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent,

    Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above

    all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon

    thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all

    the days of thy life:



    Snakes/serpents don’t eat dust and dirt.

    Snakes/serpent have never eaten dust and dirt.

    Snakes eat other animals, insects, and people.

     
  14. Wleeper

    Wleeper Member

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    This reply is in response to post #30

    Numers 22:28 clearly states that the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey placed the words in her mouth. This is not an example of an ordinary animal with the ability to communicate. The Lord used the donkey in a super-natural way just as Satan used the form of the serpant. Further, the Hebrew word translated "angel of the Lord" in Numbers 22 is malak. There is no translation in which this word is ever translated Satan nor is it ever given this meaning in the Hebrew Lexicon. You need to learn the Hebrew before making erroneous statements. Finally, you have not dealt with the scripture in Revelation.
     
  15. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Not in my translation.
    In Numbers 22...

    Indeed God did open the mouth of the *** (I feel kinda dirty just typing that :) but it would seem to me that the *** spoke of it`s own accord and for itself.
    It was apparently quite PO`d that Balaam had been beating it.

    However no where in Genesis does it state that Satan or anyone else for that matter opened the mouth of the Snake so all we know is that snakes could talk then.

    Who knows... maybe all the centuries of dust eating have destroyed this capability in snakes.

    But in your initial inquiry all you asked for was another episode of talking animals ...I gave you one.

    Here`s another..
    Revelations..

    Granted this is to happen in the future but the Bible says its so so it must be so huh?


    Umm..there is no "ordinary" animal that can communicate in this manner.
    Koko isn`t even what I`d consider "ordinary".

    Again, please point out the passages that show Satan making this snake talk.
    If you cannot you cannot say with any authority that he did do such a thing.
    It`s simply your own addition to the story.

    I`ve made no erroneous statements.
    Perhaps you should read the passages in question again.
    I never said that this angel wasn`t called "The Angel of the Lord".
    In fact I said he was doing Gods bidding and he was still called Satan.

    The Hebrew word for "adversary" here has been used to describe this angel.
    Adversary and Satan are one and the same as far as Hebrew/Greek translations go.
    That debunks your statement that these terms can be used interchangably.

    I have many more if this one will not suffice.

    I`ll get to it later.
    Right now I have to go watch Edwards debate the anti-christ.
     
  16. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Dealing with it now.

    Revelation is where Satan is described as a serpent.

    Two passages stand out vividly though there are 2 more that obviously describe Satan as a serpent these are the most obvious.

    These quotes never mention any correllation between this serpent and the serpent in Genesis.

    It`s also odd that the word "Serpent" is mentioned in the Bible 38 times in 35 verses and in only 4 is it described as Satan/Devil

    Rev 12:9 12:14 12:15 20:2

    In all 31 other mentionings of the word Serpent the word is used to describe a normal animal in the proper Hebrew context of the word.

    The fact is that these Revelation passages never link Satan and original sin.

    The 31 other biblical references have no link to Satan whatsoever
    The 73 other times the word "Satan" is used never relates to a serpent.

    I`m still looking for scripture that shows the Serpent in Genesis is Satan.
     
  17. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I`m sorry Lightkeeper I lost this post in here somewhere until now.

    I too have noticed that the vast majority of Satanic reference in the Bible is in the NT.

    It`s interesting that much of this is written by authors who were at the time of writing being persecuted by the Jewish priests
     
  18. Lostinthisworld

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    Why is it when anyone ask a question about the old testament, someone always gives you new testament quotes ?
     
  19. Lostinthisworld

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    I tend to think that Satan was able the go into the garden but he was not the serpent.
    I think the serpent was one of GOD's creations, but it was used by Satan just as we are.
     
  20. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Today, many do not believe in Satan the Devil. Yet, he is not merely the principle of evil in humankind, as some believe. Both the Bible and world events show that he is a real person. Furthermore, Satan is diametrically opposed to Jehovah God. Of course, Satan is not equal to God. Since Jehovah is the all-powerful Creator, he is the rightful Ruler over all creation.—Revelation 4:11.




    God did not create a wicked creature in opposition to himself. Rather, one of the angelic "sons of God" developed a selfish desire to seize for himself the worship rightfully belonging to Jehovah. (Job 38:7; James 1:14, 15) This desire led him to embark on a course of rebellion against God. By rebelling, this spirit creature made himself Satan (meaning "resister") and Devil (meaning "slanderer")

     
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