talk like you mean it sister... you see, i cannot hear your mind when you write - so I imagine that you are being patronising and condescending.... same way you think I have no akhlaq
Ok sister.... rip into my heart and look inside it - what do you see? nothing but a heart - you don't know what I have inside it. Nor the methods I employ.
I am more like Umr RA and can never be compared the the best of men, the noble Prophet Muhammad pbuh.
Now, for this:
Farah, learn to use the edit button... multi quoting your posts in a pain the left buttock.
There is something called amr mawlawi and something called amr irshadi - in other words, God's orders can be either like those of prayer and fasting, meant to be followed (and not doing so will result in what is called a sin) or they can be like those of a doctor's recommendations, meant for your own good only. Prophet Adam disobeyed in the manner of the latter, in other words by way of an error in judgment or a misguided choice, but did not directly disobey any of God's orders in such a way that he sinned.
Forgetting isn't a sin. It's a natural part of being human.
See this is where you try to split hairs that don't split.
Your shia school claims infallibility - that would include "forgetfulness" so you can wax all you like, the bottom line is you are well green around the ears if you think you can hold your own simply from a shia POV here.
I've studied Shia school, and though I respect it, I find many things wrong with it - and this is neither the time nor the place to discuss that.
What i will discuss here with you is the "infallibility" issue.
As I have already demonstrated for you Farah, "infallibility" means not doing a sin, even in forgetfulness - humans are not created like the creation of the malaa'ika (angels). The angels are infallible, not human beings.
Also, I demonstrated to you in my previous post that no man is infallible, but you tried to weaken the understanding of the word "infallible" by interpolating "two types of sin"... lol? really sister, you need to use some logic here.
The very word "infallible" means - not able to make sin, make mistake, even in forgetfulness - a perfected human who stands to angelic standards...
...All the prophets simply claimed the same thing "I am just a man".
Now, let's in sha Allah, move on, shall we?
Saying astaghfar without making a sin shows akhlaq and manner because it makes you humble in front of your creator !
And you can look into the hearts of men to see if whether they are just doing dhikr for hasanaat? or if they genuinely mean their repentance?
Do you see how silly your argument is? and how it collapses under scrutiny?
If not, then I am wasting time with trying to better your understanding of matters which you yourself seem very unsure of.
I'm only trying to help.
The quran says :
"Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, Ahlul'bayt, and to purify you a complete and thorough purifying." (33:33).
Meaning what exactly? what purpose did you have in mind when posting this one ayat with no explanation... care to elaborate?
Tell you what sister, I will give you my elaboration on it - the ayat mentions that Allah desires to purify the following - All Muslims, The House of the Prophet pbuh, and to do this thoroughly... how does that help you to make a case?
Do you not see how you have misused an ayat of the Quran with no understanding as to its applicative context?
See, I'm guessing that you utilised this ayat in this thread to help part way make a point that "purification" leads to "infallibility" - - - *raises eyebrows
Do you know the nature of humans as described in the Qisas al Anbiyaa by Shaikh ul Islam Ibn Kathir?
or will you quite selectively not even take a look because Sunni scholars are anathema to Shiites? - please tell me you are not like those rafidi's.
And finally:
if a prophet is not a masoom that would mean that a sin is expected from him....and if he committes a sin, this will lead to a situation where it will be wajib on the umma to object that sin, and this objection will lead to the decrease of tazeem of the opostle(the prophet)...who is the representative of Allah himself on earth...decrease in the tazeem of the opostle will raise a question on the mashiaat or u can say the qudarat of Allah, which is impossible....and adding to this ...the imam will also lose the right of objection of the same very sin that he committed himself...so in order to remain the opostle of Allah and a leader of umma on Allah's behave, to object every possible sin, it becomes a must that he himself has to be a masoom...and more to add.... Allah himself would want his representative to b like that....and adding more Allah should want his representative which he has choosen for his own rpresentation to be masoom....and at this stage of debate it turns that the one representating Allah should be a masoon which leads to that prophets are masoom and it then becomes that masoom is the only one who can become a prophet and prophets are the only one who are masoom
You're applying loose logic to something that cannot be determined by conjecture sister Farah.
Entertaining your ramblings will be counter intuitive for your benefit. I feel you are about to unleash an ego on this forum because I may have pinched a little too much.
Sister Farah, no man is infallible - did the prophet pbuh not say "Even I, do not know what is to become of me when Allah judges" ?????
Tell me sister Farah - how can you say such a thing after that?
let me put it to you like this, despite the examples i gave you in my previous posts - that no man is infallible, and despite the information i gave you as to the correct understanding of the word "infallible" - you still insist that 12 men whose identities are like oO are infallible?
You haven't done a good job of convicing anyone here, in fact, I feel that peeps here are now more sure that infallibility issue within Shia sect is something that is quite laughable to be honest.
Next time, bring one of your shia scholars here to debate. I refuse to entertain badly thought out logic and loosely understood ayaat in threads, with a fellow Muslim. I expect that from non Muslims.
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That was in a post two pages back, no doubt you read it but didn't want to respond to it - why? Afraid of being wrong sister Farah?
:help: