Was Jesus Real?

[Xax]

I think there is enough evidence to suggest Jesus was a real person, but I don't think he was any sort of god, or what he is supposed to have done, like miracles, is true

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jesus had a wonderful story of being perfect and loving. An entire religion was created after him as we all know.

However, was he even real?

Jesus the Christ is as real now as he was when he walked this earth 2000 years ago.
"
Abdul'baha has told us about the reality of Jesus Christ means; "....The reality of Christ is the collective centre of all the independent virtues and infinite significances."

For example, a lamp sheds light, the moon also illumines the night with its silvery beams, but their light is not self created, they receive their light from another source; but His Holiness the Christ is like unto the sun; his light issued forth from his own identity. He has not received it through another person, therefore we give him the comprehensive title of the "word". By this we mean that the all-comprehending reality and the depository of the infinite divine virtues..." 'Abdu'l-Bahá on Christ and Christianity

The Christ still lives in my heart, any Baha'is Heart, all Christian Hearts and a significant amount of Muslim Hearts, just as if we were with Jesus when He walked this earth.

Regards Tony

 

[blü 2]

However, was he even real?

Why is there so many other stories identical to his before him?

Years ago, when I found on the net a video making claims similar to the image in the OP, I was surprised that I'd never heard of most of them, and even after some research was able to confirm very few of them. So I don't take any of them to be reliable.

On the other hand, whether an historical Jesus existed is another story, and a question I've explored at some length. I conclude that based on our present knowledge there's no clincher either way, so I put the chances of an historical Jesus at 50-50.

 

[YoursTrue]

I said impossible, so could not happen is closer.

Gravestone, not grave. Its in Bad Kreuznach Germany.

View attachment 26587

Right about gravestone. So you saw the gravestone of Jesus' father???? OK, well, I looked it up, and true that scholars are out on this particular subject. Wikipedia has an interesting article about it, and says, in part: "The hypothesis is considered unlikely by mainstream scholars given that there is little other evidence to support the Pantera paternity outside of the Jewish texts." Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera - Wikipedia
And -- Origen considered it a fabricated story. I never heard of the story-gravestone until now.

 

[YoursTrue]

I said impossible, so could not happen is closer.

Gravestone, not grave. Its in Bad Kreuznach Germany.

View attachment 26587

Agreed that there are many things written in the Bible that are astounding, to say the least. They are generally known as miracles. And a definition of miracles that I like is: Actions or phenomena that surpass all powers known to humans and are attributed to a supernatural agency.

 

[YoursTrue]

John 7:17," If any man will do His (God's) will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."

If you want to know if Jesus is real or a copy, then follow His commands He taught during His 3 1/2 year ministry. This is the challenge Jesus gives to anyone that wants to know whether or not he is from God.

In peace

I haven't been reading too long on these threads, but I like your statement above -- I believe it is true, ALTHOUGH the thing is, there are so many interpretations of what Jesus meant that they can cause people to think they are doing God's will when in fact they are not. Do you remember that account of the Ethiopian eunuch who went to Jerusalem and on his return trip back to his home Philip the evangelizer approach his chariot and spoke to him about Jesus? (Acts 8.)

 

[Augustus]

I think Jesus was a Roman invention.

And some people still think the earth is flat, doesn't make it any less wrong.

 

[Twilight Hue]

And some people still think the earth is flat, doesn't make it any less wrong.

It's controversial but there is some credibility to it.

Story of Jesus Christ was a HOAX designed to control the people, Biblical scholar claims

Story of Jesus Christ was 'fabricated to pacify the poor', claims controversial Biblical scholar

It does explain a lot regardless.

 

[Xax]

Jesus the Christ is as real now as he was when he walked this earth 2000 years ago.
"
Abdul'baha has told us about the reality of Jesus Christ means; "....The reality of Christ is the collective centre of all the independent virtues and infinite significances."

For example, a lamp sheds light, the moon also illumines the night with its silvery beams, but their light is not self created, they receive their light from another source; but His Holiness the Christ is like unto the sun; his light issued forth from his own identity. He has not received it through another person, therefore we give him the comprehensive title of the "word". By this we mean that the all-comprehending reality and the depository of the infinite divine virtues..." 'Abdu'l-Bahá on Christ and Christianity

The Christ still lives in my heart, any Baha'is Heart, all Christian Hearts and a significant amount of Muslim Hearts, just as if we were with Jesus when He walked this earth.

Regards Tony

You can't provide evidence to prove what you are saying is true.

 

[ChristineM]

Right about gravestone. So you saw the gravestone of Jesus' father???? OK, well, I looked it up, and true that scholars are out on this particular subject. Wikipedia has an interesting article about it, and says, in part: "The hypothesis is considered unlikely by mainstream scholars given that there is little other evidence to support the Pantera paternity outside of the Jewish texts." Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera - Wikipedia
And -- Origen considered it a fabricated story. I never heard of the story-gravestone until now.

Considering there is more contemporary evidence for the father of jesus being julius pantera, i.e. jewish texts (written about the correct time) than for god magic i'll go with the Talmud.

Wikipedia is hardly a scholarly document.

Do you not find it interesting that Celsus work was destroyed and passed as fantasy by a christian author who, "paraphrased"

 

[Augustus]

It's controversial but there is some credibility to it.

Story of Jesus Christ was a HOAX designed to control the people, Biblical scholar claims

Story of Jesus Christ was 'fabricated to pacify the poor', claims controversial Biblical scholar

It does explain a lot regardless.

Just because some chap with a blog calls himself a 'Biblical scholar' doesn't make his ideas 'credible'

So, the Romans invented Jesus from an absolutely clean slate, yet did such a bad job of it that they had to create incredibly convoluted and implausible backstories to get him to match the Messianic archetype. They also mistakenly labelled him as Jesus of Nazareth, even though he was supposed to be from Bethlehem. They then used an extreme form of reverse psychology by deciding the best way to promote Christianity was in fact to oppress it.

All of this was to 'control the poor', which they believed was best achieved by introducing a religious schism in their society that requires the poor to reject the divinity of the empire and Roman cultural norms.

Add in the fact that quickly spreading religions from above in an era with primitive communication tech and a very large empire, it a very stupid idea. "Let's plant a seed now, and in several centuries it may bear fruit"

It's not exactly a formidable hypothesis, is it?

 

[ChristineM]

Agreed that there are many things written in the Bible that are astounding, to say the least. They are generally known as miracles. And a definition of miracles that I like is: Actions or phenomena that surpass all powers known to humans and are attributed to a supernatural agency.

And cannot be shown to have occured

 

[lukethethird]

On the other hand, whether an historical Jesus existed is another story, and a question I've explored at some length. I conclude that based on our present knowledge there's no clincher either way, so I put the chances of an historical Jesus at 50-50.

Carrier gives the odds as mythical; 3 to 1.

 

[Augustus]

Carrier gives the odds as mythical; 3 to 1.

Someone else invented the odds as whatever they liked and it meant just as much (i.e. **** all).

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Just because some chap with a blog calls himself a 'Biblical scholar' doesn't make his ideas 'credible'

Exactly. According to Wikipedia, Atwill is a computer programmer. Professor Bart Ehrman is quoted as saying "I know sophomores in college who could rip this ... to shreds."

I'm hardly an advocate for Christianity, but the idea that Jesus never lived is rubbish. Those people here who insist otherwise need to either quote a reputable scholar or tell us where they got their PhD in history.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You can't provide evidence to prove what you are saying is true.

I in no way have to with God it is a personal journey, that is shared with others who want to.

All have their choices in life and the greatest cop out is expecting others to do the work for them, without ones own effort.

Regards Tony

 

[sealchan]

Jesus had a wonderful story of being perfect and loving. An entire religion was created after him as we all know.

However, was he even real?

View attachment 26577 Why is there so many other stories identical to his before him?

Is it the same story that symbolically needs to be told or was it an uncreative yet effective mechanism for control?

I would add Buddha to your list...had three temptations, then taught disciples...

I think it was creative and a common practice back in a day when the many cultures of our world were producing a variety of stories about spiritually important people. There may also have been a real person whose story was, through the various gospel narrators, greatly augmented. No one told the literal story back then as such journalistic knowledge was highly impractical.

My own study of Matthew suggests that he was interested in crafting a new religion and set his story of Jesus in the context of the Jewish and even the more remote Persian religion of his time. His unique story of Jesus' three temptations is very similar to that of the Buddha and there is something "Eightfold Path"-ish about the Beatitudes IMO.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Jesus had a wonderful story of being perfect and loving. An entire religion was created after him as we all know.

However, was he even real?

View attachment 26577 Why is there so many other stories identical to his before him?

Is it the same story that symbolically needs to be told or was it an uncreative yet effective mechanism for control?

Theres proof within the Bible and outside of the Bible that will prove Jesus was real.

First of all how many will be willing to die to up hold a lie, knowing factual that it is a lie.
You will hardly find anyone willing to die for a lie.knowing it is a lie.

With that being said, So in the Bible we find many people that followed Jesus, and rather than denounce Jesus, they were put to death.
So either those people back there either died for a lie or they gave their life for what they saw and heard from Jesus.
So there's proof in the Bible that Jesus was real.
And now on the outside of the Bible, We find many things how people were put to death in the Roman coliseum by wild animals and at the hands of the gladiators.and burned at the stake.all because they would not denounce Jesus or their faith in Christ Jesus.

So either these people died for a lie or they died for the truth which they held.

Seeing that no one would die just to up hold a lie.
Alot of those people were there alive at the time of Christ Jesus.

It's a guarantee if someone held a knife at your throat you would definitely give up the lie, but yet these people went to their grave to up hold the truth they held.

Human nature will teach when it comes to life or death, people will definitely give up the lie.

 

[blü 2]

Carrier gives the odds as mythical; 3 to 1.

So he thinks an HJ is more likely than not. Whereas, as I said, I see no clincher either way and regard the question as open.

I'm a fan of Bart Ehrman, but for me, his Did Jesus Exist? adds little of substance to what we know, a rerun of the argument from authority ('everyone thinks so') and Paul's 'James the brother of the Lord' (Galatians 1:19).

>David Fitzgerald's Nailed < is a readable and not-too-long place to start for an overview of some of the arguments against an HJ.

For me, the strongest arguments in favor of an HJ are the gospel scenes in which Jesus fights with his family and can't mention his mother without attacking her: Mark 3:31, Mark 6:3, Mark 15:40, Matthew 10:35, Luke 11:27. John 2:3, contrast only John 19:26. Suddenly you could suspect a real human in there somewhere.

 

[Dell]

Maybe you are just trying to justify your belief in this story that comes from your Bible. What necessitates an historical figure besides special pleading?

Not so much a belief in any bible story, just some requirements to strip added nonsense so the story might be realistic historically. Minus the nonsense, some of the sayings and acts of Jesus of Nazareth could still be represented in the bible as a third persons account from an actual witness.