Was 'Jesus' ie; 'Yeshua', really a man of the East?

[Phantasman]

I am only referring to whatever possible evidence exists in terms of history, but in the case of Jesus, or Yeshua, no body was recovered so we don't know that he actually died as a result of his crucifixion. There are theories in which he may have been cared for and then spirited off via of a deal between friends and family with the Romans to the Buddhist Hemis monastery at Leh Ladakh, in the Himalayas, where he was known to the monks as 'our beloved St. Issa', the deal being the reason his legs were not broken while those of the other two crucified were broken.

"Issa (or Issi) is a corrupted form of the Skt. Rishi (or Riksha). Issa is how the Muslims call Jesus Christ, whom they acknowledge as a sort of saint. The Rishis are the "Sages" or "Seers" who revealed the Vedas (Hindu evangels) to the world. They date from Vedic times in India, being far older than the times of Christ, and even of Israel as a Biblical nation in Palestine. The Rishis are widely worshipped in the Far East, whence their cult passed to the Near Orient and, thence, through Alexandria, into Greece and Rome.

The several etyms of the name of Jesus/Issa in Sanskrit reveal the Indian origin of both his myth and his onomastic. Isha (or Ishan or Ishwa) means "Lord", as we already said. Emmanuel or Manuel derives from Manu-el, that is "Lord Manu", meaning "Saviour Lord". Ishva (read "Ishwa") means "Master" ( = Rabbi, a frequent designative of Christ). Ishi (or Isha) means "Rishi", that is, "the one who reveals the Evangels", like the Seven Rishis, who preceded him, and whose myth he copied.

The Essenes — from whom most of the doctrines allegedly preached by Jesus were copied — called such initiates and prophets by the name of Issar (plural Issarim). In Sanskrit (the sacred language of India in which such myths were composed) many etyms are telltale of the true origin of the myth of Christ. In it, Ishu means "missile" and, more exactly "envoy", "messenger", emissary". Jesus/Ishu is thus "the Celestial Messenger" or "Angel" (Angelos in Greek means just this), the avatar commemorated in the Mass (Latin Missa = Emissa = Emissary").

Isha also the same as Rishi (or Riksha or Rishabha), meaning the sacrificial bull (or lamb) that represents the Saviour in many ancient traditions, as well as in Christianism. Isha also means the Elixir (Soma), to which Christ is mystically identified. In fact, Soma is an ancient Hindu god whose sacrifice — the same one aped verbatim in the Christian Mass — results in the production of the Elixir (or Eucharist), precisely as in Christianism."

http://www.rickrichards.com/jc/JesusComment2.html

I don't see how Islam or Buddhism know Christ. The orthodox catholic ideology didn't even know Christ. If they did, they would have taught the gospel of such. Not a form of Judaism. (Galatians 1).

Jesus as Christ was a mouthpiece of spiritual truth. Not a god. Word=knowledge. Flesh profits nothing.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Whether Jesus traveled to India and died there is unimportant but the message that he spread, just as Muhammad spread the message of
one God.

 

[godnotgod]

There is no evidence for this except for a vain attempt to justify Dharmic religious beliefs.
.

There exists a large body of evidence, none of which individually are a 'smoking gun', but taken altogether, create a comprehensive picture of his travels Eastward into Persia, Tibet, and India.

We have total silence for some 18 years from the Christian accounts, which may be explained by his travels to the East, along with his residence at the Nazorean Essene monastery at Mt. Carmel.

 

[godnotgod]

I don't see how Islam or Buddhism know Christ. The orthodox catholic ideology didn't even know Christ. If they did, they would have taught the gospel of such. Not a form of Judaism. (Galatians 1).

Jesus as Christ was a mouthpiece of spiritual truth. Not a god. Word=knowledge. Flesh profits nothing.

What is the meaning of 'Christ' to you?

 

[godnotgod]

Whether Jesus traveled to India and died there is unimportant but the message that he spread, just as Muhammad spread the message of
one God.

What is important is that some of the doctrines that survived the onslaught of Paul and Rome came from the East. For example, and this is only my opinion, the last words of Jesus from the cross were "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". This is not a request of forgiveness of his transgressors for their SIN, but of their IGNORANCE. That is not Christian doctrine, but Buddhistic.

That he may have died in the East is important in the context of the Hemis Buddhist monastery at Ladakh, where the monks there refer to him as 'our beloved St. Issa', and to where they claim he returned after his crucifixion to live out the rest of his days.

 

[godnotgod]

Jesus as Christ was a mouthpiece of spiritual truth. Not a god

What's the difference?

 

[sayak83]

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/killing-jesus/articles/a-look-into-the-missing-years-of-jesus/

That's a series of hypotheses arranged from the most sane to the most outlandish.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That's a series of hypotheses arranged from the most sane to the most outlandish.

hahahaha hey man just saying....I wouldn't be surprised some Indian Gurus met a Jewish guy named Jesus who taught them some things.

 

[Tumah]

@Tumah is this correct?

Except for the last line which is obviously wrong since many prophets had the same format to their name. Also, the Greek spelling doesn't work with that, only the Hebrew does.

When I look up Joshua in the Greek LXX and Jesus in the Greek NT I get
Ἰησοῦς - Joshua
Ἰησοῦς - Jesus

I believe the sigma at the end was a common Greek suffix for masculine names. If you do the math with Wikipedia, the Greek letters were originally parallel to the Phoenician alphabet. There was no š sound in Greek as far as I know. In Hebrew/Aramaic the š and s are often the same letter. So if you switch the Greek letter for the parallel Phoenician (or if you like the theory that certain Phoenician letters we use as consonants today were originally vowels):
Ἰησοῦ = Yhšʕw (Ēĕšʕu)
Hebrew= Yhwšʕ (Ēĕušʕ)
Aramaic = Yšwʕ (Ēšuʕ)

It's not hard to imagine that it might just be an alternative spelling or something for the same names.

Also, regarding what the person you responded to was saying about the meaning of Yeshua in Aramaic Christianity, the answer is "not very much". The Aramaic equivalent of the Hebrew noun yeshuah that is the basis of these names, is purkana. And I double checked that in the Aramaic Pe****ta, because Syriac is a different dialect than the Babylonian Aramaic and Jewish Palestinian Aramaic that I"m used to. It wasn't easy to find because apparently most of the time you see the word "salvation" or "save" in the English NT, it's being translated as "life" or a verb of that in the Pe****ta. But in Acts 4:12, you can find the word purkana. So it's possible that unless someone knew Hebrew, they may have been as likely to know what the Aramaic name Yeshua means as an English-speaking person is to know what the name Isaac means.

 

[crossfire]

The Buddhist monks sent to Egypt and Greece were Theravada Buddhists, who were healers. As I understand it, they eventually became an Essene community called the Therapeutae, carrying the healing tradition forward. The modern day Essenes claim that the northern Essenes of Mt. Carmel, which was a mystical sect, had contact with the Therapeutae. The Mt. Carmel monastery, Order of the Nazorean Essenes, was a family monastery, where it is claimed the Jesus, Mary, and Joseph lived, worked, and taught. There was no city or town of Nazareth at the time. Instead, there was a tent city on the slopes of Mt. Carmel which was an Essene devotee community, and which some think to be what was then 'Nazareth', Mt. Carmel being just 10 miles outside of modern day Nazareth. It may have been the Therapeutae from which Yeshua acquired his healing arts. It may also be that one of the Therapeutae monasteries or a Coptic churches in Egypt where the holy family fled to. Can't remember exactly which one made that claim.

I agree with you that Jesus probably had Buddhist influence. For instance, Matthew 18:8-9 and Matthew 5:27-30 (The mind being the origin of lust and adultery, and become disenchanted by the sensory imput {metaphorically cut out one's eye, cut off ones hand} makes much more sense if you have read Buddha's Fire Sermon.

Studying Buddhism has helped me to better understand Christianity. Without understanding Buddhism, it would probably be much more difficult to understand Jesus's teachings. (Your mileage may vary.)

 

[Tumah]

What is important is that some of the doctrines that survived the onslaught of Paul and Rome came from the East. For example, and this is only my opinion, the last words of Jesus from the cross were "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". This is not a request of forgiveness of his transgressors for their SIN, but of their IGNORANCE. That is not Christian doctrine, but Buddhistic.

I don't have any horse in this race, but I think you're imposing your view onto this statement. The statements is a request for forgiveness for people whom the author is claiming are sinning out of ignorance. It's not a request for forgiveness for ignorance. That would be "forgive them for not knowing". What this is saying is "forgive them because they don't know". The underlying concept of sins out of ignorance versus intentional sins is a Jewish concept.

 

[Jumi]

You didn't have to go east from Israel to meet Buddhist ideas.

The Seleucid Empire (/sɪˈljuːsɪd/;[6] Ancient Greek: Βασιλεία τῶν Σελευκιδῶν, Basileía tōn Seleukidōn) was a Hellenistic state ruled by the Seleucid dynasty, which existed from 312 BC to 63 BC; Seleucus I Nicator founded it following the division of the Macedonian empire vastly expanded by Alexander the Great.[7][8][9][10] Seleucus received Babylonia (321 BC), and from there, expanded his dominions to include much of Alexander's near-eastern territories. At the height of its power, the Empire included central Anatolia, Persia, the Levant, Mesopotamia, and what is now Kuwait, Afghanistan, and parts of Pakistan and Turkmenistan.

The main religions Zoroastrian, Olympian, Buddhist would each have been known in Israel at the time they were part of the Empire. When Romans came, not all of their memories would be forgotten in a short time.

 

[Phantasman]

What is the meaning of 'Christ' to you?

One anointed with the Holy Spirit. Jesus was the first and opened the door for man to receive it. It was his true mother. We become sons of mother and Father as Jesus did. This is a Christ (Chrism).

 

[Phantasman]

What's the difference?

We worship the Father. Not the son. We become a son.

 

[Tumah]

"The several etyms of the name of Jesus/Issa in Sanskrit reveal the Indian origin of both his myth and his onomastic. Isha (or Ishan or Ishwa) means "Lord", as we already said. Emmanuel or Manuel derives from Manu-el, that is "Lord Manu", meaning "Saviour Lord". Ishva (read "Ishwa") means "Master" ( = Rabbi, a frequent designative of Christ). Ishi (or Isha) means "Rishi", that is, "the one who reveals the Evangels", like the Seven Rishis, who preceded him, and whose myth he copied."

http://www.rickrichards.com/jc/JesusComment2.html

I don't think this is a great argument. It's basically saying, "if you mispronounce some words, you can make them sound like words from another language", which you have to admit is a really foolish argument.
In Arabic, Jesus is spelled ʕysa, the first letter being a pharyngeal consonant that is not present in Sanskrit. You're using the closest approximation in order to find a word that will fit what you want it to. And that's ignoring the fact that you're choosing the spelling and pronunciation of a name in a language that would not have been used by the subject or the authors of the time, which makes it completely irrelevant for your purposes.

 

[Vinayaka]

Here's the Wiki page on it. Unknown years of Jesus - Wikipedia

I'm with Rajiv Malhotra on this. (See other thread) He stated, when asked ... "Well, I wasn't there." In other words, nobody knows. My thoughts have always been just one of agnosticism, and that the idea of Jesus is irrelevant to mainstream Hinduism. That's just because, for the large part Hinduism already gives it's people everything (and more) in regard to religions. It's just not necessary to add anything more. Many of us would say we already have too much.

But I still can't understand how the concept of irrelevance in someone's belief is taken as antagonistic hatred, or outright dismissal. Is it simply not okay to have a differing POV? I thought most of us like freedom of thought.

 

[shunyadragon]

There exists a large body of evidence, none of which individually are a 'smoking gun', but taken altogether, create a comprehensive picture of his travels Eastward into Persia, Tibet, and India.

We have total silence for some 18 years from the Christian accounts, which may be explained by his travels to the East, along with his residence at the Nazorean Essene monastery at Mt. Carmel.

The evidence is for disciples of Jesus traveling East, and not for Jesus traveling East. One claim of a Buddhist monastery is 80 AD is likely a follower of Jesus.

Your simply 'arguing from ignorance' concerning the missing years in the biography in the gospels. Others make these false claims for their own agenda. Claims of Jesus being among the Druids, and in America are only a few of the many claims.

Large body of of evidence? That'a a very questionable over statement. There is no evidence that can be traced to the life of Jesus nor him personally.

 

[shunyadragon]

What's the difference?

Big difference, one is claimed to be God and the other a human being chosen as a messenger of God's Revelation for humanity. For example; Judaism, Islam and the Baha'i Faith.

 

[shunyadragon]

Really? Where would that idea have come from?

The story of Christianity being taught at a Buddhist monastery North of Srinagar in 80 AD.

Also Saint Thomas is believed to be sent East to teach his message.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The years of Jesus's life not accounted in the gospels is just that missing years with no indication other than that he lived and worked with his father as a carpenter, and possibly studied the scriptures. The gospels are not that accurate of a first person biography. They are compiled more than 50 to 100 years after Jesus died to draw any definitive conclusions concerning the life of Jesus.

As a jewish male who kept the torah it is highly likely he was required to marry and do other required things. His ministry starts at 33 not at 13. Thats plenty of time to fulfill the command to multiply and fill the earth if he took that command as a personal one and if he could reproduce. That doesn't clinch it, but not only that but his birthday, house location and other personal details are left out of all accounts of him - the opposite of darmic deities. With them every detail matters, every freckle.