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Respected Bible scholar Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore has researched the frequent use of the word "meat" in the New Testament Gospels. He traced its meaning to the original Greek.
His findings were first published in World Forum of Autumn, 1947. He reveals that the nineteen Gospel references to "meat" should have been more accurately translated thus:
Thus, the Authorized Version of John 21:5, .'Have ye any meat?" is incorrect. It should have been translated: "Have ye anything to eat?"Greek word, number of references and actual meaning.
Broma 4 "Food" Brosis 4 "The act of eating" Phago 3 "to eat" Brosimos 1 "That which is eaten" Trophe 6 "Nourishment" Prosphagon 1 "Anything to eat"
"Fish" is another frequently mistranslated word in the Bible. Its reference is often not to the form of swimming life, but to the symbol by which early Christians could identify each other. It was a secret sign, needed in times of persecution, prior to official acceptance of Christianity as a state religion.
The sign of the fish was a mystical symbol and conversational password. Its name deriving from the Greek word for fish, "ichthus" Much later it was represented an acrostic, composed of leading letters of the Greek phrase, "Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter"-"Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour."
Frequent references to fish are intended as symbolic of The Christ and have nothing to do with the act of eating a dead fish. But the symbol of the fish did not meet with Roman approval. They preferred the sign of the cross, choosing to concentrate more on the death of Christ than on His brilliant life. Perhaps this is one reason only ten percent of His life record appears in the canonical scriptures. Most of His first thirty years has been omitted.
Many Biblical scholars believe Jesus was a member of the Nazarene Essenes, a Jewish religious sect that followed a vegetarian diet and rejected animal sacrifices. This is possible when one looks at the Shroud of Turin, a centuries old linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man, whom many believe to be Jesus. If Jesus was indeed a member of the Nazarene Essenes, he would also have taken the vow of a Nazarene, thus not cut his hair (Numbers 6:5). In the imprint found in the shroud of turin, there is a man with west-asian features (Nazareth is in west Asia), who has long hair, further supporting the claim Jesus was a member of the Nazarene Essenes.
What about Fish?
In the 14th chapter of Matthew (verses 13-21) Jesus takes his boat to a remote island. Thousands follow him there. Jesus tells his disciples to feed these people, but the tell him that they only have five loaves of bread and two fish (verse 17). Jesus gave thanks for the food, and it multiplied into enough to feed five thousand people. Now the question is, if Jesus was a vegetarian, why was he giving fish to his followers?
It should be noted that some scholars contend that the Greek word for "fish weed" (a dried seaweed) has been mistranslated in this story as "fish". It is certainly true that dried fishweed would be more likely in a basket with bread, and fishweed remains a popular food among Palestinian peasants like the people to whom Jesus was speaking. Also, in the beginning of the story (Matthew 14:13) it says Jesus got to this place by boat. These people were right by the sea. If they were out of fish, why not just go on a quick fishing expedition? Surely with 5,000 men present it would not be that hard to go fishing. With this in mind, it further supports the thought that fishweed was being used, not actual fish.
"I require mercy, not sacrifice" (Matthew 9:13 & 12:7)
This is a significant message when we remember that in the context in which this was said meat eating was commonly considered part of these sacrifices. Sacrificial offerings often entailed meat consumption and a strict reading of Leviticus 17: implies that, indeed, all meat consumption necessitated a sacrifice. Also, the noted confrontation of Jesus in the Temple suggests that he was not at all pleased by the desecration of the Temple by the money changers AND by "those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons" (John 2:14-15) since these animals were being sold for sacrifice before being eaten.
Eusebius says that James the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian, and in fact was evidently raised as a vegetarian (Ecclesiastical History 2.23). Why would Jesus parents have raised James as a vegetarian, unless they were vegetarian themselves and raised Jesus as a vegetarian as well? Eusebius also states (Proof of the Gospel 3.5) that all the apostles abstained from meat and wine.
There is nothing in scripture that says anything like this. All the scriptural references presented are speculation as to how references to meat might mean something else and references to fish might actually be references to seaweed and how Jesus might have also been mad about the sacrifices... The only real "evidence" that you present is that "Eusebius said so."Druidus said:Jesus was likely a vegetarian. Certainly, his brother, James, was, why would he be raised in a different manner?
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James was raised as a vegetarian. His parents were likely vegetarian. Why would they have raised Jesus any different?
I agree.lilithu said:There is no evidence that Jesus was vegetarian
There is nothing in scripture that says anything like this. All the scriptural references presented are speculation as to how references to meat might mean something else and references to fish might actually be references to seaweed and how Jesus might have also been mad about the sacrifices... The only real "evidence" that you present is that "Eusebius said so."
"Eusebius says that James the brother of Jesus was a vegetarian, and in fact was evidently raised as a vegetarian (Ecclesiastical History 2.23). Why would Jesus parents have raised James as a vegetarian, unless they were vegetarian themselves and raised Jesus as a vegetarian as well? Eusebius also states (Proof of the Gospel 3.5) that all the apostles abstained from meat and wine."
Eusebius was born about 260 C.E. In other words, over 220 years after Jesus' death. How does Eusebius know what Jesus' brother ate? Because he certainly doesn't know it from scripture. And if there were some documented evidence closer to Jesus' time, why isn't that presented instead of the writings of a man 220 years afterwards? If you're going to accept Eusebius here, are you prepared to accept everything else Eusebius said as also true? If not, why not? If we are going to start citing hearsay as evidence just because we like what's being said, I guarantee you that you will be opening the door for stuff that you don't like too.
Eusebius' writings were never considered to be scripture.Druidus said:Just because certain books are removed from Gospel doesn't destroy their historical significance. Not all original scripture is still scripture.
Jesus was never shown to take a dump in the Bible either. Does that mean he didn't? Unless there is actual mention of him doing something unusual, it is far more logical to assume that he did what normal Jewish men did in his time. Vegetarianism was not usual.Druidus said:Practically anything in the Bible is speculation.
Jesus was never shown to eat meat in the Bible, at least not without logical controversy over the translation of the word.
just to prove humans are pretty much 98% herbivore i am a vegan and hate any form of animal crulty wicca - an ye harm none do what ye will as for jesus and christiantity it teaches to love mankind love your brother and sister but not cows or pigs or other lifeforms.
Lord Roghen said:I love it when the ignorant act smart.
Maize said:We discussed this issue in the Paganism forum as well, but I want to address it here as well, even though I think you know what I mean lol. We have to eat something, and many who are vegetarian or vegan are so because they are concerned about the impact their diet has on the whole environment around us, including the animals, and they believe that by eating a vegetarian or vegan diet, they are having the least amount of impact as possible. Although I guess I do look at plants I eat a little differently, however I would not say I don't think they are any less important, if anything, they are MORE important to me personally, because they keep me alive! But it's more like an appreciation for the life-giving qualities they provide my body. I can look at things like broccoli, green leafy lettuce, brussel sprouts, onions, fruits and beans and see the life and energy they have that transfers to me when I eat it, but when I look at a dead animal, all I see is a rotting corpse.
Maize said:As some of you know, I am a vegetarian and this is something that is very important in my life. While I'm not Christian, I certainly try to follow Jesus' example of love, compassion and mercy and those things are part of the reason I do not consume meat. So, I find it interesting that when I tell people I am vegetarian and the various reasons why I am, I get the most resistance and even outrage from those who claim to follow Jesus' teachings, which is very confusing to me.
But anyway, there are those who believe that Jesus was vegetarian and even if ihe wasn't, he would be one today because of how we treat the animals that end up on the dinner plate. That being said, if it was proven that Jesus was a vegetarian, should all Christians be vegetarians as well?
Also, it has been said to me on more than one occasion that according to the Bible, God gave Man animals to eat and to do with as he pleased and that by not eating them, one is going against the will of God. Any thoughts on this? Do you believe that's true?
Lastly, I know that other religions believe in not eating meat and I'm interested in hearing about those religions and there reasons for being vegetarian, or having a mostly vegetarian diet.
Yes, I find it to be quite a shocker when real life Christians respond completely contrary to how I expect them to. Many modern Christians try and fuse Christianity with conservitave American values and right-wing politics, often with mixed results.Maize said:As some of you know, I am a vegetarian and this is something that is very important in my life. While I'm not Christian, I certainly try to follow Jesus' example of love, compassion and mercy and those things are part of the reason I do not consume meat. So, I find it interesting that when I tell people I am vegetarian and the various reasons why I am, I get the most resistance and even outrage from those who claim to follow Jesus' teachings, which is very confusing to me.
I'm not sure how anyone would go about proving Jesus's dietary habits. I know Christians should try to follow Jesus's teachings, but I see no need to become little clones of him.But anyway, there are those who believe that Jesus was vegetarian and even if ihe wasn't, he would be one today because of how we treat the animals that end up on the dinner plate. That being said, if it was proven that Jesus was a vegetarian, should all Christians be vegetarians as well?
I find this additude to be very arrogant. The idea that animals are just alive to be eaten and do our chores is disgusting.Also, it has been said to me on more than one occasion that according to the Bible, God gave Man animals to eat and to do with as he pleased and that by not eating them, one is going against the will of God. Any thoughts on this? Do you believe that's true?
Man is an omnivore. This is a biological fact. However, I also consider life to be sacred and I respect the decision of those who choose not to eat meat.Lastly, I know that other religions believe in not eating meat and I'm interested in hearing about those religions and there reasons for being vegetarian, or having a mostly vegetarian diet.
Hi blessed.blessed said:just to prove humans are pretty much 98% herbivore i am a vegan and hate any form of animal crulty wicca - an ye harm none do what ye will as for jesus and christiantity it teaches to love mankind love your brother and sister but not cows or pigs or other lifeforms.
The following info comes from "The Comparative Anatomy of Eating", by Milton R. Mills, M.D.
Hmmmm? Wasn't he involved in the distribution of loaves and FISHES?Was Jesus a vegetarian?