Was Islam spread by the sword?

[FearGod]

As a Persian I could assure you that it was spread by sword. The very beginning of Islam as a major religion was by power of swords, because Muhammad, unlike many other prophets, did not believe in secular governments and he always told people that as the prophet he must also be the ruler of Hijaz, today known as Saudi Arabia.

When he gathered enough followers after some years, he attacked the tribes that ware ruling Mecca and Medinah and became the king, or in his words, Khalifa which means God's substitute.

So if it wasn't for swords, there would be no Islam.

In my opinion becoming an emperor was his main goal, since he took people that were overlooked in society, the ones that were outcast and had no power and formed an army, and promised most of them power and wealth, probably his most infamous promise is the one he made to Ali to make him his successor, but it was overruled when Mohammad died and a result, now we have Shia and Sunni.

So why Islam is spreading, is it because of the sword.

That is silly,you can never make some one believe by force and even if you can then for a limited time.

Muslims are approaching 2 billions, where is the sword ?

Do the Persians nowadays go to pray in the mosques at dawn because of the sword ?

Your rationalizations is irrational and looks so stupid to me.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi everyone. Some people say that Islam was spread by the sword. Others say that it was not. The Koran says that there is to be no compulsion in religion so it would seem that Islam's sacred text would condone religious freedom. But was this really the case historically? Here is the reference from the Koran which I am referring to.


Quote:

[2.256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Islam did not spread with sword or because of sword.
Islam spread for its natural, rational and peaceful teachings.

Regards

 

[England my lionheart]

Islam did not spread with sword or because of sword.
Islam spread for its natural, rational and peaceful teachings.

Regards

Please show us a working example,Saudi?,Sudan?Pakistan?,please show us a working example of this "rational and peaceful teachings" in progress,good luck.

 

[England my lionheart]

So why Islam is spreading, is it because of the sword.

That is silly,you can never make some one believe by force and even if you can then for a limited time.

Muslims are approaching 2 billions, where is the sword ?

Do the Persians nowadays go to pray in the mosques at dawn because of the sword ?

Your rationalizations is irrational and looks so stupid to me.

Really?
BBC News - Sudan woman faces death for apostasy

 

[FearGod]

Really?
BBC News - Sudan woman faces death for apostasy

Really ?

What about Ibn al-RAWANDI, Abu Bakr al-Razi, Al Ma'arri, Muhammad al warraq ?

The Sudanese woman in the news is a proof that Islam can never spread by force,as she refused to return back to Islam even though she may face death,you can never force people to accept religion by war,try it yourself and use force to bring a new religion,i am making that only as an example as of course you won't success,but by peace, you may.

 

[England my lionheart]

Really ?

What about Ibn al-RAWANDI, Abu Bakr al-Razi, Al Ma'arri, Muhammad al warraq ?

The Sudanese woman in the news is a proof that Islam can never spread by force,as she refused to return back to Islam even though she may face death,you can never force people to accept religion by war,try it yourself and use force to bring a new religion,i am making that only as an example as of course you won't success,but by peace, you may.

That's ok then,she's going to die because she will not be forced to follow the religion of her Father,what of the force that caused this to happen.

Even if I were a religious person there isn't a single religion I would want to be affiliated with or put on another human being.

 

[paarsurrey]

Please show us a working example,Saudi?,Sudan?Pakistan?,please show us a working example of this "rational and peaceful teachings" in progress,good luck.

Religion is a personal matter of an individual; it does not belong to any state. States must run on the basis of justice and equality among the people.

[4:58] And those who believe and do good works, We shall make them enter Gardens through which streams flow, to abide therein for ever; therein shall they have pure spouses; and We shall admit them to a place of pleasant and plenteous shade.
[4:59] Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
[4:60] O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and HisMessenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showchapter.php?ch=4&verse=58

Regards

 

[England my lionheart]

Religion is a personal matter of an individual; it does not belong to any state. States must run on the basis of justice and equality among the people.

[4:58] And those who believe and do good works, We shall make them enter Gardens through which streams flow, to abide therein for ever; therein shall they have pure spouses; and We shall admit them to a place of pleasant and plenteous shade.
[4:59] Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
[4:60] O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and HisMessenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showchapter.php?ch=4&verse=58

Regards

OK,can you show us where a working example of this "rational and peaceful teachings" in progress anywhere at all,good luck.

 

[FearGod]

OK,can you show us where a working example of this "rational and peaceful teachings" in progress anywhere at all,good luck.

Al Andalus was a good example.

[youtube]FQMNV3IUJuc[/youtube]
Al Andalus (Islamic Spain) - YouTube

 

[FearGod]

That's ok then,she's going to die because she will not be forced to follow the religion of her Father,what of the force that caused this to happen.

If religion is by force then you wouldn't see a single Jew or Christian living in Iran.

[youtube]vPEw4hsAn_M[/youtube]
Iran's Jewish Community - YouTube

Even if I were a religious person there isn't a single religion I would want to be affiliated with or put on another human being.

You can't, Prophet Muhammed was a single man,he wasn't a leader or a king but just a layman.

How a layman can force others to believe in one religion.

 

[Sabour]

Then I would say that in the worst places to live in the world right now there's a total lack of understanding,thats my opinion of course but when I look at a map of the world the worst parts are the most religious.

“We were the most humiliated people on earth and God gave us honour through Islam. If we ever seek honour through anything else, God will humiliate us again.”


― Umar ibn Al-Khattab

 

[Sabour]

Please show us a working example,Saudi?,Sudan?Pakistan?,please show us a working example of this "rational and peaceful teachings" in progress,good luck.

If a working example exist, media will make it not working.

I would suggest you look at how Islam reached Andalusia

 

[Maldini]

So why Islam is spreading, is it because of the sword.

That is silly,you can never make some one believe by force and even if you can then for a limited time.

Muslims are approaching 2 billions, where is the sword ?

Do the Persians nowadays go to pray in the mosques at dawn because of the sword ?

Your rationalizations is irrational and looks so stupid to me.

Who talked about now? And 2 billion still way less than 5 billion, after 1400 years since Mohammad claimed he has brought the ultimate religion for humanity. To me that's a failure, especially since these guys had a license to kill for many years.

The main title is obviously talking about Islam in its early days, it's funny the stuff I said are facts and clearly prove it WAS spread by sword, and you have no answer to that!

I am forced to say payers and praise Allah and Mohammad every day in my government job because they'll kill me if I don't. Don't tell me you don't know what a " murtad " is.

en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

Simply put, if you're a Muslim, you can never quit, otherwise it's demanded that you be punished, in most places by death. I'm sure many people are willingly Muslims, but you have to realize that killing even one single person for apostasy does make it a religion spread by the sword.

And replying to the bold part, 80% of Persians never go to mosque and 60% of them never say prayers ( Salat ) or fast in Ramadan, and 5-10 % of them at least don't believe in Allah or Islam at all but you don't hear a word from them, and you wanna know why? BECAUSE THEY WILL LOSE THEIR LIVES , hence the expression " spread by sword " or " forced by threatening to kill " .

And to gloat a little bit, if Iranian cyber-police find this post they will arrest me and torture me to the point I either repent or not and in that case I'll be executed.

 

[ZooGirl02]

In my own personal opinion, I believe that Islam was spread by the sword to some extent. Granted, many people do convert to Islam without being forced to do so. However, the Islamic empire was spreading a lot back in the Middle Ages. In fact, that is why the Catholic Church launched the Crusades because they were trying to defend land that was being stolen from them by the Islamic empire. With those lands under Islamic rule, it would have been easy for Christians and Jews to be oppressed. More than likely many would sadly convert just to escape the oppression.

From what I understand, under Islamic law, no new churches are allowed to be built. I have also heard that under some forms of Islamic law, churches are not allowed to be repaired unless a permit is given. From what I understand, it's very difficult to get one of these permits. So anyway it seems that Islamic law intentionally made it difficult for Christians and Jews to continue living their religion and practicing it. In the Islamic empire there was definitely a huge bias in favor of Islam which probably put Christianity and Judaism at a disadvantage.

Anyway, if Islam is supposed to coexist with Christianity and Judaism then why is it that there is not a single Christian church or Jewish synagogue in all of Saudi Arabia? Also, in many other Islamic lands churches are somewhat rare. But in Saudi Arabia, they are outright forbidden. Indeed, Christians can't even practice an essential element of their faith; evangelism, without facing punishment.

 

[FearGod]

In my own personal opinion, I believe that Islam was spread by the sword to some extent. Granted, many people do convert to Islam without being forced to do so. However, the Islamic empire was spreading a lot back in the Middle Ages. In fact, that is why the Catholic Church launched the Crusades because they were trying to defend land that was being stolen from them by the Islamic empire. With those lands under Islamic rule, it would have been easy for Christians and Jews to be oppressed. More than likely many would sadly convert just to escape the oppression.

From what I understand, under Islamic law, no new churches are allowed to be built. I have also heard that under some forms of Islamic law, churches are not allowed to be repaired unless a permit is given. From what I understand, it's very difficult to get one of these permits. So anyway it seems that Islamic law intentionally made it difficult for Christians and Jews to continue living their religion and practicing it. In the Islamic empire there was definitely a huge bias in favor of Islam which probably put Christianity and Judaism at a disadvantage.

Anyway, if Islam is supposed to coexist with Christianity and Judaism then why is it that there is not a single Christian church or Jewish synagogue in all of Saudi Arabia? Also, in many other Islamic lands churches are somewhat rare. But in Saudi Arabia, they are outright forbidden. Indeed, Christians can't even practice an essential element of their faith; evangelism, without facing punishment.

Why you are singling Saudi Arabia ?

You can see many churches in the Muslim world,so what you said isn't true,you have to bring your sources and not just your own words or your opinions which is due to your ignorance.

Some churches from the Muslim world.check here

 

[FearGod]

Who talked about now? And 2 billion still way less than 5 billion, after 1400 years since Mohammad claimed he has brought the ultimate religion for humanity. To me that's a failure, especially since these guys had a license to kill for many years.

2 billions is a failure and then you contradict yourself and say that they should be much more due to the use of force.

The main title is obviously talking about Islam in its early days, it's funny the stuff I said are facts and clearly prove it WAS spread by sword, and you have no answer to that!

Faith can never be forced, it is just stupid thing to believe that faith is forced.
In ancient time there were no certificates required to show what is your religion or what is your sons religion and no one will fetch if your faith was real or was due to fear,so any faith by force can never success,it is utter stupid to think that faith can be forced.

I am forced to say payers and praise Allah and Mohammad every day in my government job because they'll kill me if I don't. Don't tell me you don't know what a " murtad " is.

en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

Apostasy was in the time of Abu Bakr when Apostates declared war against the Islamic state and hence it was a war between Muslims and the Apostates, so killing a peaceful apostate isn't justified.

Simply put, if you're a Muslim, you can never quit, otherwise it's demanded that you be punished, in most places by death. I'm sure many people are willingly Muslims, but you have to realize that killing even one single person for apostasy does make it a religion spread by the sword.

Do you want to say that every one in Iran is watched and investigated to see if he/she follows Islam or not.

And replying to the bold part, 80% of Persians never go to mosque and 60% of them never say prayers ( Salat ) or fast in Ramadan, and 5-10 % of them at least don't believe in Allah or Islam at all but you don't hear a word from them, and you wanna know why? BECAUSE THEY WILL LOSE THEIR LIVES , hence the expression " spread by sword " or " forced by threatening to kill " .

What is your source for your statistics for the real number of prayers in Iran ?
Is it a governmental source or just a stupid thing to say,please explain how you figured it.

And to gloat a little bit, if Iranian cyber-police find this post they will arrest me and torture me to the point I either repent or not and in that case I'll be executed.

OMG, Don't tell me that,they may get me too,specially that i declare that many Muslim scholars are so stupid and some Muslim leaders too.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I have read before that in a Muslim society they are supposed to allow other religions to exist but they have to pay some sort of tax. Personally I that seems like oppression if not compulsion.

Why would you think it is oppressive? It is part of the treaty taken between Muslims and non Muslims, kinda like the the residence ID expenses for expats everywhere around the world!

Besides, Muslims pay charity and alms, just as the taxes are paid in the west. Non Muslims do not do that in Muslim countries!

Please don't jump to conclusions misjudging Muslims like that

 

[Maldini]

2 billions is a failure and then you contradict yourself and say that they should be much more due to the use of force.

What?! The should be much more, they aren't, so it's a failure. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Faith can never be forced, it is just stupid thing to believe that faith is forced.
In ancient time there were no certificates required to show what is your religion or what is your sons religion and no one will fetch if your faith was real or was due to fear,so any faith by force can never success,it is utter stupid to think that faith can be forced.

That's your opinion. Yes it can never be forced inside anyone's heart, but it can easily be made obligatory in appearances by threatening. What was Islam's advantage to what Persians already believed in that time? NONE. We had figured out stuff way better than Islam way earlier, so do you really think when Arab's attacked Iran persians run out of their houses welcoming them and thanking them for the gift of Islam?! Hell no.

When someone tells you you either convert or you die, and you know they'll kill you, you'll accept it. And that's exactly what happened.

Apostasy was in the time of Abu Bakr when Apostates declared war against the Islamic state and hence it was a war between Muslims and the Apostates, so killing a peaceful apostate isn't justified.

It is, if they were Muslims who want to come out of Islam, at least where I live.

Do you want to say that every one in Iran is watched and investigated to see if he/she follows Islam or not.

Not in their private lives, since no government has the sources to do that, but let's say If I publicly announce my atheism, I'll be arrested and my family and I will be threatened to be killed, and If I don't repent, I will be killed. It's in Iran's constitution.

If you had checked the news, they arrested 6 people for putting a video on youtube dancing to Pharell's happy song, so just imagine what would they do if someone who's been a Muslim declare their renouncing.

What is your source for your statistics for the real number of prayers in Iran ?
Is it a governmental source or just a stupid thing to say,please explain how you figured it.

You think the totalitarian government will ever perform a study on that? I've been living in this country for all my life, it's a simple observation. You're welcome to ask Iranians yourself, there are millions of them on Facebook.

OMG, Don't tell me that,they may get me too,specially that i declare that many Muslim scholars are so stupid and some Muslim leaders too.

Do you live in Iran? Are you an Iranian?

I know I'm safe since they will never look into these kinda forums and even if they do, they won't care since I'm not doing anything publicly, but if I start a forum like this while residing inside Iran I will def. be arrested.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Anyway, if Islam is supposed to coexist with Christianity and Judaism then why is it that there is not a single Christian church or Jewish synagogue in all of Saudi Arabia? Also, in many other Islamic lands churches are somewhat rare. But in Saudi Arabia, they are outright forbidden. Indeed, Christians can't even practice an essential element of their faith; evangelism, without facing punishment.

You're blaming the wrong party here. Saudi Arabia does not represent Islam, but itself as a country only. It is unfortunate that Saudi Arabia does not practice Islam the way it should, it has its own law as a country. Islam has nothing to do with it!

 

[FearGod]

What?! The should be much more, they aren't, so it's a failure. Seems pretty obvious to me.

2 billions of believers means failure to you and they should be much more.

That's your opinion. Yes it can never be forced inside anyone's heart, but it can easily be made obligatory in appearances by threatening. What was Islam's advantage to what Persians already believed in that time? NONE. We had figured out stuff way better than Islam way earlier, so do you really think when Arab's attacked Iran persians run out of their houses welcoming them and thanking them for the gift of Islam?! Hell no.

So why people are still praying, are they forced to pray in the mosques.


Are they forced to pray ?
[youtube]J1Kqh8cTi34[/youtube]
Muslims pray together in Moscow at Eid al-Fitr (celebration of fast-breaking) - YouTube

When someone tells you you either convert or you die, and you know they'll kill you, you'll accept it. And that's exactly what happened.

Convert or die.:areyoucra
Which verse says convert to Islam or die ?

It is, if they were Muslims who want to come out of Islam, at least where I live.
Not in their private lives, since no government has the sources to do that, but let's say If I publicly announce my atheism, I'll be arrested and my family and I will be threatened to be killed, and If I don't repent, I will be killed. It's in Iran's constitution.

Why you need to announce atheism, is it kind of a hero thing ?
Why not be a hero like the prophet and defend atheism and convert your people back to atheism in which you think of it to be better than Islam,maybe then sex tourism will be allowed in Iran with your efforts for freedom ?

If you had checked the news, they arrested 6 people for putting a video on youtube dancing to Pharell's happy song, so just imagine what would they do if someone who's been a Muslim declare their renouncing.

They have been released, but i don't agree that they should be arrested for that, Why to blame Islam.

Where in the quran that women should be arrested for dancing ?that isn't adultery.

You think the totalitarian government will ever perform a study on that? I've been living in this country for all my life, it's a simple observation. You're welcome to ask Iranians yourself, there are millions of them on Facebook.

So it was your statistics made by your observations.

Do you live in Iran? Are you an Iranian?

I know I'm safe since they will never look into these kinda forums and even if they do, they won't care since I'm not doing anything publicly, but if I start a forum like this while residing inside Iran I will def. be arrested.

I don't agree that people should be arrested for discussing their opinions about religion .

But what i know that there are some Christians and Jews living freely and are well protected in Iran,why not forced to Islam or being killed.