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Was Islam spread by the sword?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ZooGirl02, May 26, 2014.

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  1. ZooGirl02

    ZooGirl02 Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone. Some people say that Islam was spread by the sword. Others say that it was not. The Koran says that there is to be no compulsion in religion so it would seem that Islam's sacred text would condone religious freedom. But was this really the case historically? Here is the reference from the Koran which I am referring to.

     
  2. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    One gets the sense that this is a confused and confusing matter for Muslims.

    While they like to quote that verse of the Quran, there is also a general expectation that Muslim societies have the right to demand obedience to Islamic Law.

    And then again, there is also a general feeling that no true Muslim (or at least Islamic) society exists, and maybe never existed. Not for lack of claimants, though.

    Case in point:

    Source: Wikipedia - Battle of Chamkaur

    I don't think most Muslims have a very clear and well-thought idea of what lack of compulsion in religion would be. As is only to be expected, since they learn and are constantly reminded to submit to the supposed Will of God as expressed in the Quran and its interpreters.
     
    #2 LuisDantas, May 26, 2014
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  3. Poeticus

    Poeticus | abhyAvartin |

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    But such a statement downplays societies
    throughout history that have adamantly
    called themselves "truly Muslim". We can't
    act as judges declaring they weren't "truly
    Muslim" (and I'm not saying that you are).
     
  4. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I see where you are coming from, but we can't very well just accept that societies are both Muslim and not Muslim at any given time either.

    At least not if significant decisions rely on deciding one way or the other... which Muslims seem to insist on.

    Also, while I often use "Muslim" and "Islamic" interchangeably, I realize that this is not quite correct. Islamic is an ideal, Muslim a reality. Much can be and often is made of the difference between the two.
     
  5. ZooGirl02

    ZooGirl02 Well-Known Member

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    I have read before that in a Muslim society they are supposed to allow other religions to exist but they have to pay some sort of tax. Personally I that seems like oppression if not compulsion.
     
  6. steeltoes

    steeltoes Junior member

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    Islam, Judaism, and Christianity were spread by the sword. My parents never used a sword, they didn't even own one, but they did force me to go to church every Sunday against my will.
     
    #6 steeltoes, May 26, 2014
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
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  7. ZooGirl02

    ZooGirl02 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to reply to your post but this thread is about Islam and not Christianity. If you'd like, feel free to start another debate thread.
     
  8. arcanum

    arcanum Active Member

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    Well I don't think it's either fair or accurate to lump Judaism in with in with Islam and Christianity regarding religions which were spread by the sword, because it wasn't. Both Islam and Christianity( thought not initially) however were definitely spread not by love but by violence. Convert or die and convert or be second class, heavily taxed citizens were applied by both religions to subjugated and conquered peoples. That whole no compulsion in religion is a contradiction and contrary to the historical accounts of the spread of Islam, this can even be found in the Koran and the hadith's themselves. Spin masters can spin if that makes them feel better but anyone willing to have an objective look at world history can discover this fact without much effort. Both Christianity and Islam have both blood and compulsion in their histories, and still do.
     
  9. Sabour

    Sabour Well-Known Member

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    Why it is oppression ? Muslims used to to pay Zakat which is more than the taxes. And Muslims were the ones responsible to defend the territory. And once I heard from a scholar that they had the opportunity not to pay taxes if they want in condition that they join muslims in sharing the responsibility to defend the territory (I can't assure you that as I didn't look for his proof about that).
     
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  10. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    Of course, always remember the Mushrikun
     
  11. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    This may interest you,Sudan woman faces death for apostasy,she is also pregnant,the ideal of Islam can be contradictory,this is from the same news story:

    Farouk Chothia

    BBC Africa

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There is a long-running debate in Islam over whether apostasy is a crime.

    Some liberal scholars hold the view that it is not - and back up their argument by citing the Koranic verse which states: "There shall be no compulsion in religion."

    Others say apostasy is tantamount to treason - and refer to what Prophet Muhammad said: "It is not permissible to spill the blood of a Muslim except in three [instances]: A life for a life; a married person who commits adultery; and one who forsakes his religion and separates from the community."

    The latter is the dominant view in conservative Muslim states such as Sudan, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and the cause of much religious tension.

    Here's the link

    BBC News - Sudan woman faces death for apostasy,
     
  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    In some instances yes. But there aren't too many ideologies that haven't been spread by violence at one point in time or another.
     
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  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    However that may be I believe a Muslim knows he can't force a person to believe things. We had a Muslim attend our church and the Pastor tried to convince him of a few things but that didn't work and the Muslim probably tried to convince the Pastor of a few things and that wouldn't work either and I should know because I have never been able to convince him of anything.
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe children are required to obey their parents but once one becomes an adult one can act as stupidly as one wishes.
     
  15. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that isnot in the Qu'ran and therefore must be one of those hadiths attriibuted to Mohammed. I do not view Hadiths as the word of God but some Muslims do. It doesn't surprise me that it seems to contradict the Qu'ran.
     
  16. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    What exactly does "required" mean in this context? Which provisions exist to deal with abusive parents?
     
  17. Sabour

    Sabour Well-Known Member

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    Hadith is not the word of God except for the hadith "Qudsi".

    However, Hadith is part of Islam because Mohammad peace be upon him was the prophet. He lived Islam in every second he was on earth. However, the reason Hadith doesn't seem to be part of Islam for some people is that because Hadith can be easily taken out of context and can be easily made to say another thing.
     
  18. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    So Islams prophet didn't speak in gods words in this instance?,maybe there were other contradictions too:

    Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:

    Narrated Abu Burda:

    Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

    I expect there are more,even your team has some,it must be difficult for a follower of Islam to work out when Muhammed was working for a God when it comes to ahadith,perhaps a Qur'an alone Muslim doesn't encounter that problem.
     
  19. seeking4truth

    seeking4truth Active Member

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    Don't you pay tax to your government? All citizens pay tax. Do you want non-Muslims to be exempt in a Muslim state?
     
  20. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    All religions was by choice except Islam was by force,here is the evidence

    [youtube]sazJFMVNX70[/youtube]
     
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